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What amp isn't reliable?

I forget where I saw it, but I read that rack mounted amps should have at least 1-rackspace gap between the amp and other gear in the rack to allow proper airflow around the amp to prevent overheating.

I think SWR (and other manufacturers) could setup an airduct from the case intake vent to the fan to aid in bringing in cool air to blow across the heat sinks. Newer PCs use this method to cool the CPUs.

I had my Fender Bassman 50 tube head from 1973 to 1978 with no failures. The matching 1x15 cab was problem free as well.

My Fender Bassman 400 Head and 4x10 Pro SL cab is going on 4 years old with no issues.

I have a Nemesis NA320 head and an Ashdown Mag 2x10 cab. Neither of them have had any issues, but they are less than 1 year old.
 
I think SWR (and other manufacturers) could setup an airduct from the case intake vent to the fan to aid in bringing in cool air to blow across the heat sinks. Newer PCs use this method to cool the CPUs.
Or simply going from front to rear like Mesa or Fender have with their high powered heads.

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I forget where I saw it, but I read that rack mounted amps should have at least 1-rackspace gap between the amp and other gear in the rack to allow proper airflow around the amp to prevent overheating.

Depends on amp design entirely. Good forced-air designs should have no problem with close mounting.
 
Maybe longterm reliability testimonials would tell as much as anecdotal failure bits.

What's the difference between anecdotal reliability testimonials and anecdotal failure bits?


My mid 80s Seymour Duncan heads seem to be pretty well put together. The one I've got gut shots of is the least reliable of the two. A previous owner had (so I was told) rigged the amp to run to 2 ohms bridged only. It's fragile- but it's the better sounding of the two heads. The only problem I've had with the other head was with an object getting sucked into the fan. These heads were built prior to 1988, I used them heavily from the mid 90s to the turn of the century and they still function fine.

The fan is loud, which I don't care about, it moves a lot of air and keeps the amp working- it's a great head with loads of headroom.

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I forget where I saw it, but I read that rack mounted amps should have at least 1-rackspace gap between the amp and other gear in the rack to allow proper airflow around the amp to prevent overheating.

If you do that you run the risk of the hot air exiting the amp circling round to the intake and re-entering the amp, and so on. Not terribly likely but certainly possible. I wouldn't expect any forced air cooled power amp to need spare space above or below.

Alex
 
In reviewing HC reviews- when you have 15 reviews of an amp (one of which is mine) and at least 1/3 of the reviews mention running hot or overheating or blowing fuses... that's a red flag.

Which is certainly a larger sample than you are getting here so far ; }

The tendency to grind axes in forums is probably higher than in reviews as well.
 
I think quite a bit of your problem is "self-inflicted injury".

I've had to install a fan to remove the hot air from inside the rack, and although that's worked well for several years, it's been giving me problems again. I've now drilled holes in the side of the rack to allow hot air out the side. I also got a top panel that I drilled a few hundred holes in to get more air moving inside the amp chassis, and allow more hot air to exit the amp.

might not be a good idea (see below)

The amp is completely and totally unreliable. This amp has failed on me in less than an hour, and provided plenty of instances of me being completely embarrassed because my big, fancy pants expensive amp shut down on me.

The heat sinks are the long, rectangular things- the fan is directly to the right. The idea is that the fan will passively draw air from the back grate (top center), push the air through the heat sinks towards the exit grate to the left.

What problems does this present?

The air inside the chassis is heated by 3 things. The transformer (front right), the preamp tube (front left) and the heat sinks. The fan is pushing hot air through the heat sinks to cool the amp. Think about that. Hot air, cooling the amp.

You say "passively", but a fan would be "active" I think....... The design your amp shows is very standard, and is not an inherent problem as far as general setup.

The amount of heat provided by the small tubes is minimal. It would not be an issue if the total volume of cooling air is sufficient. (see below).

The TRANSFORMER is a slightly more visible issue. The design, long and thin, is inherently inefficient, because there is a lot of "length per turn", leading to added resistance and more heating. If the amp shuts down for 10 minutes at a time, it may be due to insufficient cooling of the transformer. There should be air vents to allow air to pass around it and cool it. (see below). A toroid would run cooler and shut down from transformer overheating less often.

Also, the distance apparent between the heatsink and the chassis wall does, as you mention, allow recirculation of hot air. That will be worse if the exit of hot air is blocked. It is better to have no more than 6mm or so space, and to align the holes in the chassis with the heatsink fin spacing.


The amp is designed to be rack mounted. The front panel of the amp is designed to secure the amp to a rack. It's recommended in the user's manual to rack mount the amp. I have the amp mounted in an SKB rack. The wall of the rack is around a half-inch from the wall of the chassis. Because it's so close to the exit grille of the amp- it's resistance to the hot air that does exit out of the grille. The air that doesn't dissipate from the wall of the rack gets pushed back into the chassis of the amp. Because there's about an inch between the chassis wall and the heat sink, that hot air is able to get back into and get recirculated through the heat sink.

But remember that the amp passively draws air into the amp. If the heated air gets out out of the heat sink, and out of the chassis, it's enclosed in the rack, and THAT air is drawn back into the amp.

SKB (Shoulda Known Better?) racks are notorious for fitting like a glove, which is bad for cooling. They aren't any bigger than they absolutely have to be to fit the equipment.

With only a half inch to the wall of the rack, you are essentially totally blocking airflow. I would be pretty sure that the manual mentions that you should NOT block airflow..... but you did.

The mere fact that it can be rack mounted, and SKB is a rack, does not necessarily mean it should work perfectly in an SKB rack.

The incoming air vent on the back is actually fine. It should be able to draw in cooler air because the back is open when in use. (you DO at least open the back in use, right?) If sufficient airspace is available for the air to leave the chassis out the vent, hot air should be rising away from the chassis, allowing cooler air to come in.

You keep saying "passively", but in fact the fan is blowing air OUT actively, so air will be actively sucked in through the other vents. The positioning of those vents then can direct airflow over any other parts (transformer) that need cooling. The general airflow should sufficiently cool the small tubes in preamp.

it is possible that the large inlet vent in the back does not sufficiently cool the transformer, OR that your "total enclosure" rack does not allow airflow into the vents that ARE by the transformer.

Drilling a lot of holes in the amp top at random has several problems.

1) it lets the hottest air, that has already risen away from the chassis, back in.

2) If the original vent system would have sufficiently cooled the transformer etc if air was not blocked by the rack, your extra holes have completely messed up that system. If you drilled them all near the transformer, it might not be so bad, aside from item 1.

The real question is whether the amp will work OK if it is NOT covered up by a tight-fitting rack. If so, then your problem is the rack, and you should provide venting of the rack to fix it.

If NOT, then you may have a point. But I suspect that the unit will do what you want with no problems when allowed to vent its heat.

Venting the rack right in line with the heatsink air exit would be a really good idea.

I agree that a weakness of the unit is the space between the heatsink and the chassis wall. That alone makes it over-sensitive to vent blocking, as it does allow recirculation.

You could, since you have already been in the unit, add some side baffles between the heatsink and the chassis wall to direct that air right out the side and not allow it to re-circulate. That alone might fix a number of your issues.

Then cover up all the holes you put in the top....... unless they are by the transformer, AND there are none in the side by it.
 
I own a lot of Carvin gear and I have never had any issues with any of them. I do protect my equipment well. All of it travels in SKB cases and the power lines are filtered and conditioned. A lot of crap comes across the power lines - nearby lightning strikes, industrial machinery even kitchen appliances all produce surges and spikes that can kill an amplifier. I was scanning through the thread on show off your amp and I was supprised to see how few carried power line protection. I'll bet this is the reason for many amp failures.
 
The transformer is pretty good power line protection and isolation by itself.... not much gets through.

In an SMPS powered amp, the input filter on the power line does a good job on transients.

Often, putting a "protector" across the power line is ineffective because the power line can carry enough power to blow that thing out of the chassis. A 'real" one FOR power line protection is bigger than a doorknob.

Plus, the protector has to have a breakdown rating well above the power line peak. For a 240V line, the protector may not "'protect" until 500V, because the power line peaks are 375V or so at "high line". Most protectors degrade a bit with every 'hit" and their voltage comes down a bit. it CANNOT EVER break down for regular voltage, or it will be burnt up fast. So the voltage is set pretty high. They are not "precision" devices, so a bit of extra voltage margin is allowed as well......

That starts to be a non-protector.......
 
My guess is a lot of them fail because of DC on the power lines. Ideally there shouldn't be any, but reality is anything but ideal. A small amount of DC will cause a substantial current to flow through the primary winding of the transformer, and that in turn will heat the transformer sustantially.

I'd wager this is the cause of a lot of smoke rising from amp chassis around the world, and it would also explain why some people have it happening repeatedly. Same location, same DC...

As a side note, this weekend an old Peavey CS800 went belly up. No smoke, just triggering the house fuse. Haven't opened it up yet, but I'm pretty certain it's a case of old age in the power supply caps. It's at least 20 years old (I bought it used), so I'll forgive it. But it's one heavy mofo. The transformer could probably be used in an arc welder, so a little DC won't faze it.
 
I was scanning through the thread on show off your amp and I was supprised to see how few carried power line protection. I'll bet this is the reason for many amp failures.

+1

This is, IMO, a good way of keeping power supply issues away.
I guess almost every amp can last long if cared with princess-level care. "okay" reliability should be given to amps which have a good lifespan of normal abuse (occasional over- or mis- use). And amps that are "reliable" are not those which "last long", as many more variables than just time enter the equation of reliability, but rather those which last long over abuse.

As an example, my friend has had a Behringer 3000A for some time last year. During a regular jam, the amp somewhat tipped, fell on its side (no height or whatever aggravating situation, it just tipped over), and died. Some circuits had cracked.

To give the opposite of this, I have already dropped my BL115 combo down a set of stairs (no damage but my foot), had some random frustrated guitar player smash his guitar in the grill (no damage), have had some fat lady dance on it, then - it's kickback, duh - fall on it (no damage). Up to now, nothing has ever given a sign of weakness. Maybe that's because it was a good BL115 among the lot of them (as this is also a variable; the random better or worse amp of his make), but I would qualify it as "reliable".

And I think, if one day a beerproof amp pops up on the market, I would call it reliable.
 
One might distinguish between reliable and rugged.

A reliable amp won't fail unless it's abused.
A rugged amp will continue to work when it's abused.

The tricky part is drawing the line beween them. What's rugged for home or studio use might be completely unreliable on the road. It's a case of both electrical and mechanical resilience.
 
BTW........ it is a bit unfair to blame a manufacturer for the actions of a repair company which is not a part of the manufacturer, and whose 'relationship" to the manufacturer is a contractual agreement relative to repairs, only. I would be willing to bet that your disappearing SVT was accompanied by substantial unpaid bills owed to many manufacturers, and many other 'disappearing" units belonging to other customers.

I disagree. "Authorized" repair company is an extension of the manufacturer itself. It means that they have to take good care of your gear and respect the warranty even if they didn't manufacture it. Period.

For me, reliabilty is based on CS. Problems may happen every day : bad parts, bad solder, etc... If the manufacturer takes care of his customers, they will do whatever it takes to fix the problem. Some forumites post problems they had with Genz-Benz products, problems that were solved almost instantly by the manufacturer. I had an issue with a new Eden 410XLT cab (crack sound at low volume). I took 3 months to have it repaired. See the difference? I will not buy from Eden again even if I loved their products. I replaced it with a GBE750 amp and I am very happy with it. I know that if anything happens, they won't let me down.
 
Their are IMHO three classes of gear:

Entry Level: This is budget product, a vast majority of it is made in Vietnam or China. To lower prices, most of this product cuts corners significantly. It's OK for a beginner, whose career is rarely on the line if his amp blows while he or she is playing at a friends party (when the parents are out of town). Theirs nothing wrong with buying this stuff as long as you realize what your getting. Behringer, GK Backline, are great examples of this stuff. If you start using this stuff hard at or near the limits of it's ratings it will fail, it's just a matter of when.

Consumer Level: This category is mostly mid priced product that can many times offer considerable savings to comparable "boutique" products with similar performance. The one thing I've noticed in this category is that there are some exceptional values but the quality control doesn't appear as good. I think the biggest difference with this stuff and the boutique stuff is the level of R & D and the level of some of the components. A great example of this is the obvious lack of R & D that went into the new Eden 800 and 1200 heads. Eden still offers some exceptional values and the old 800 is one of the standards of touring amps. But the lack of reliability in the new stuff is a serious issue (not ALL of it, just those two heads). Ashdown has had similar problems with some of their product line a few years ago. From what I've seen these companies still make good product, but they've made some duds, and had some product that needed A LOT more testing before it was released. Some of the stuff at this level is exceptional product, the old Eden 800's, the new Mark bass stuff. And if you buy right this stuff will take pro level abuse for years.

Boutique: This product is designed with one thing in mind, to build the best of it's class. Cost limitations are rarely considered. The manufacturers don't care if it's expensive, they just want to reach their tone, power and quality goals. This stuff doesn't always work for everyone, a lot of these companies have very specific goals in mind and it doesn't always make for practical product, the Sadowsky SA200 and the Aguilar DB 359 come to mind. Those amps aren't for everyone, but they are very good at what they do. Their are some good values in this class, Thunderfunk comes to mind right off the top, while it isn't the cheapest 550W head, it's certainly one of the best for a lot less money then some other stuff in it's class. For the most part this stuff is built good, with very few compromises, consequently for the most part companies like Glockenlag, Aguilar, Thunderfunk, and Epiphani are super reliable.
 
Quoting Jerrold:
"The transformer is pretty good power line protection and isolation by itself.... not much gets through."

I have to disagree with this statement. If you apply 120V AC to a transfomer and get say 100V on the secondary normally, when you apply a spike of 240V you will get a 200V spike on the secondary. This will lead to failures virtally every time.
 
I think quite a bit of your problem is "self-inflicted injury".

might not be a good idea (see below)
The drilled top panel is new as of last week or the week before. It worked, the amp didn't shut down after 2 hours of use on an outdoor stage.

My theory for getting another panel to drill holes in is that the amp, as designed, and as used is not cooling.

With the fan only moving the air inside the chassis, the fan can only push the existing warm air through the heat sink. As hot air rises, drilling holes (especially above any heat generating device) should allow that hot air to exit the chassis, thus creating a vacuum causing "fresh" air to be inducted through the lower intake grate. The exhaust fan I have mounted to top rack rail is supposed to move hot air out of the rack- in theory to allow cool air into the rack- whether the hot air exits the exhaust grate or the holes in the top panel, air will still be in the chassis for the fan to push through the heat sink- hopefully that air will be cooler.

You say "passively", but a fan would be "active" I think....... The design your amp shows is very standard, and is not an inherent problem as far as general setup.
What I mean by "passively" is that nothing is forcing air into or drawing air out of the chassis. The fan is in the center of the unit forcing air through the heat sinks, towards the exit grate. Any air that is introduced to the system is pulled in passively by the vacuum by air leaving the chassis, not by the fan actively forcing or drawing.

The amount of heat provided by the small tubes is minimal. It would not be an issue if the total volume of cooling air is sufficient. (see below).

The TRANSFORMER is a slightly more visible issue. The design, long and thin, is inherently inefficient, because there is a lot of "length per turn", leading to added resistance and more heating. If the amp shuts down for 10 minutes at a time, it may be due to insufficient cooling of the transformer. There should be air vents to allow air to pass around it and cool it. (see below). A toroid would run cooler and shut down from transformer overheating less often.
Again, the preamp tube, the transformer and the radiant heat from the sides of the heat sink all heat the internal air within the chassis- whether the preamp tube generates a lot of heat is irrelevant- it's one more thing generating heat into an environment where cooling air is being drawn from.

Also, the distance apparent between the heatsink and the chassis wall does, as you mention, allow recirculation of hot air. That will be worse if the exit of hot air is blocked. It is better to have no more than 6mm or so space, and to align the holes in the chassis with the heatsink fin spacing.

SKB (Shoulda Known Better?) racks are notorious for fitting like a glove, which is bad for cooling. They aren't any bigger than they absolutely have to be to fit the equipment.

With only a half inch to the wall of the rack, you are essentially totally blocking airflow. I would be pretty sure that the manual mentions that you should NOT block airflow..... but you did.

The mere fact that it can be rack mounted, and SKB is a rack, does not necessarily mean it should work perfectly in an SKB rack.
While I cannot (and have no desire to) defend SKB's design, It seems to me that the overwhelming majority of racks I've seen have been similar SKB racks. When the amp was re-engineered in the late 90s, that should have been a consideration.

I have drilled 3-4 rows of holes holes into the rack handle panel- coinciding with the exit grille. And prior to drilling those holes the exhaust fan I added onto the top rack rail is directly above and to the rear of the exhaust grille.
The incoming air vent on the back is actually fine. It should be able to draw in cooler air because the back is open when in use. (you DO at least open the back in use, right?) If sufficient airspace is available for the air to leave the chassis out the vent, hot air should be rising away from the chassis, allowing cooler air to come in.
Within the confines of the rack case (and, yes, I operate the amp with both covers off) the hot air stays in the rack, yes hot air does exit the rack, however, the air temperature inside the rack is warmer than outside air temperature.
You keep saying "passively", but in fact the fan is blowing air OUT actively, so air will be actively sucked in through the other vents. The positioning of those vents then can direct airflow over any other parts (transformer) that need cooling. The general airflow should sufficiently cool the small tubes in preamp.
Again, I do say "passively" because the fan is neither forcing or drawing air in or out of the chassis. The intake vent of the amp is in the center rear. The transformer is in the right front and the preamp tube is in the left front, the heat sink is the closest heat generating device to the fresh air intake.

it is possible that the large inlet vent in the back does not sufficiently cool the transformer, OR that your "total enclosure" rack does not allow airflow into the vents that ARE by the transformer.
There is no vent by the transformer.

Drilling a lot of holes in the amp top at random has several problems.

1) it lets the hottest air, that has already risen away from the chassis, back in.
I don't understand that. The hot air inside the chassis would just be blown through the heat sink if not removed from the chassis- (for the sake of discussion) regardless if it gets re-introduced to the system, it's going to be reintroduced at a cooler temperature, however the rack mounted exhaust fan should remove the rising, heated air.

2) If the original vent system would have sufficiently cooled the transformer etc if air was not blocked by the rack, your extra holes have completely messed up that system. If you drilled them all near the transformer, it might not be so bad, aside from item 1.
Again, there is no vent by the transformer.
The real question is whether the amp will work OK if it is NOT covered up by a tight-fitting rack. If so, then your problem is the rack, and you should provide venting of the rack to fix it.
I have. And it still runs hot.
If NOT, then you may have a point. But I suspect that the unit will do what you want with no problems when allowed to vent its heat.
Again, not to defend SKB, but operating the amplifier in an enclosed space- as any portable rack- is asking for trouble with this amp. On it's own, without the rack case, running a recommeded load (8 ohms bridged) the amp still runs hot.

Venting the rack right in line with the heatsink air exit would be a really good idea.
I've already done that- and have actually drilled more holes.
I agree that a weakness of the unit is the space between the heatsink and the chassis wall. That alone makes it over-sensitive to vent blocking, as it does allow recirculation.

You could, since you have already been in the unit, add some side baffles between the heatsink and the chassis wall to direct that air right out the side and not allow it to re-circulate. That alone might fix a number of your issues.
Thank you very much- that's actually something I haven't thought of. A previous tech had added baffles to either side of the fan before the heat sink- My idea was to find another fan to fit in there and add that to the existing fan circuit, but I didn't know if that would overload that power supply.

Then cover up all the holes you put in the top....... unless they are by the transformer, AND there are none in the side by it.

As it's a seperate panel- I didn't use the panel that came with the amp, I can replace it at will.
 
I forget where I saw it, but I read that rack mounted amps should have at least 1-rackspace gap between the amp and other gear in the rack to allow proper airflow around the amp to prevent overheating.
I think you're thinking specifically of GK heads like the 1001RB-II. The fan faces upward through a grate in the top of amp, making a space above it necessary. (which works fine for those heads)