I spent 20 years (the 70's and 80's) making my living as a full time bass player, and the last 30 years as a part time musician with a day job. I have always considered myself a professional, and I will only work with others with the level of professionalism I bring to the table. Call me a snob, but it's not fun for me to work with rank amateurs. Suit up, show up, do the job (i.e. perform), get paid.
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What Constitutes a Professional Musician?
- Thread starter CoffeeLove
- Start date
As a retired pro for half a century I go with the tax return test. If one has a day gig and plays weekends that makes him or her a semi pro. To be a professional anything one must make their living at it.
Possibly
That's how how I was told - you can have 2 equal professions... it's like saying you're a semi pro musician and semi pro waiter. What I was told, by people who taught me how to do my taxes as a musician here, that my primary profession is the one that is my main source of income. If it's exactly 50/50 (which it has never been for me), then you would have two primary sources of income.
If you make 1% more as a musician, then that's your primary profession.
I'm just saying what I was taught and how I always did it LoL. As I understand. those are the accepted ... well, not sure they are rules, but standards?
Well if I read correctly, at 50 / 50 musician and waiter I'd first be careful ( tax wise ). Both have "history" of cash income that I guess could be not claimed ??
But at least as claiming yourself a musician you can claim your equipment etc in your taxes. The waiter can only claim work clothes if can't be worn for daily use. So, a hockey goalie can claim their uniform, only has "one use". A tennis outfit can be worn daily not job specific. At least that's how the law office at one athletic company told us 1099 type endorsement "employees ". Deduct "at your own risk". Ha !
So use pro musician and at least deduct what ya can. Keep Rock'in it
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I agree with the tax return test.
I myself lived a little 25 years off of music, gigging 2 to 5 nights per week, traveled a lot, studio, radio and tv shows in between and teaching music on weekdays. Was a member of the musicians union. Wrote and arranged music, contributed to music magazines.
Some periods I had a lot to spend, other times had to sell instruments to pay the bills. On the average did quite alright. I understand these days it is much harder to make a living out of music.
I myself lived a little 25 years off of music, gigging 2 to 5 nights per week, traveled a lot, studio, radio and tv shows in between and teaching music on weekdays. Was a member of the musicians union. Wrote and arranged music, contributed to music magazines.
Some periods I had a lot to spend, other times had to sell instruments to pay the bills. On the average did quite alright. I understand these days it is much harder to make a living out of music.
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Agree, substantial portion of your income is from music and pay taxes on it; also be a member of a professional organization, i.e. American Federation of Musicians; Home - American Federation of Musicians
Go to the website and see what they offer i.e. travel tips, visa guidance, instruments on airlines, etc.
Go to the website and see what they offer i.e. travel tips, visa guidance, instruments on airlines, etc.
I've spent the better part of the last ten years (basically my entire adult life) touring heavily in bands as my main source of income, and I've spent a lot of time considering this very question. I also think I'm a bit younger than a lot of the people who post here, so maybe my perspective can help contribute something different / interesting to this conversation.
There are certain common attributes I recognize within a lot of the touring musicians I meet. Strong dedication to their instrument and craft, the ability to work well with others, a reliable rig of good sounding equipment, the right mindset and coping mechanisms to handle the mental rigors of long stints out on the road, and a slew of other factors that can all be tossed under the umbrella of "professionalism". While I don't think any of these make a person a professional outright, I think they're largely prerequisite to one actually becoming a professional in any sustained capacity. I don't meet many true professionals who don't possess a combo of these skills.
The harrowing financial realities of the present day music industry also make me apprehensive to use an income percentage or IRS filing status as the official line of delineation between a professional and a non-professional. Royalties from album sales and streaming services are scant to laughable. Record labels that aren't majors or major subsidiaries no longer possess the resources to pay out substantial album advances. Musicians have become more and more reliant on touring and merchandise sales to make a steady living, and even that money has to filter through a series of state and venue taxes, road crew payouts, and booking agency cuts of 5-10% before you even see a dime. The high overhead of lodging, travel, food, equipment, vehicle maintenance, etc. all get peppered on top. There has been a large culling of the middle-class of live acts and venues over the last decade (art imitates life I suppose), and you can sustain off of playing in a band full time, but you have to live pretty lean unless you are very lucky. It makes complete sense to me that so many musicians seek primary or supplementary income elsewhere while still touring regularly, and I don't think that makes any of them less of a professional.
I usually just opt to say I "work in music" personally. Also not sure there are any professional musicians left now that covid has rendered the entire industry extinct lol. It's an interesting question, thanks OP
There are certain common attributes I recognize within a lot of the touring musicians I meet. Strong dedication to their instrument and craft, the ability to work well with others, a reliable rig of good sounding equipment, the right mindset and coping mechanisms to handle the mental rigors of long stints out on the road, and a slew of other factors that can all be tossed under the umbrella of "professionalism". While I don't think any of these make a person a professional outright, I think they're largely prerequisite to one actually becoming a professional in any sustained capacity. I don't meet many true professionals who don't possess a combo of these skills.
The harrowing financial realities of the present day music industry also make me apprehensive to use an income percentage or IRS filing status as the official line of delineation between a professional and a non-professional. Royalties from album sales and streaming services are scant to laughable. Record labels that aren't majors or major subsidiaries no longer possess the resources to pay out substantial album advances. Musicians have become more and more reliant on touring and merchandise sales to make a steady living, and even that money has to filter through a series of state and venue taxes, road crew payouts, and booking agency cuts of 5-10% before you even see a dime. The high overhead of lodging, travel, food, equipment, vehicle maintenance, etc. all get peppered on top. There has been a large culling of the middle-class of live acts and venues over the last decade (art imitates life I suppose), and you can sustain off of playing in a band full time, but you have to live pretty lean unless you are very lucky. It makes complete sense to me that so many musicians seek primary or supplementary income elsewhere while still touring regularly, and I don't think that makes any of them less of a professional.
I usually just opt to say I "work in music" personally. Also not sure there are any professional musicians left now that covid has rendered the entire industry extinct lol. It's an interesting question, thanks OP
A person who has gigs,
Doesn't matter if one is solely able to live off of his musical abilities. Have worked with numerous killer Union Musicians in the day who had regular day jobs and played private clubs -Elks, etc - in the evening making good money at a Union scale.
Have worked as an agency guy for a few years making a living solely playing hotels and lounges which, if out of town, also included rooms and meals.
I struggled as an "originals" musician where the bandhouse was a condemed building. The gigs paid little, relying heavily on the door. Wasn't making much money, but certainly was playing a lot and writing/recording a lot.
Been in bands, original and cover, while working a day job - which means no travel except on weekends.
And then there's the cats that tour constantly for name actsin arenas, concert venues, and casinos - who live solely off of the earnings of their instrumental abilities.
I call all of these people professiobal musicians. 2¢
Also teachers. Both institutional and private. Can't forget those guys. I have never taught, but my wife did - piano, guitar, voice for years as well as playing in cover bands and chamber ensembles.
And studio cats/rats. Can't forget them either. There's all kinds of ways to be a "pro" musician in my [weak] mind.
Doesn't matter if one is solely able to live off of his musical abilities. Have worked with numerous killer Union Musicians in the day who had regular day jobs and played private clubs -Elks, etc - in the evening making good money at a Union scale.
Have worked as an agency guy for a few years making a living solely playing hotels and lounges which, if out of town, also included rooms and meals.
I struggled as an "originals" musician where the bandhouse was a condemed building. The gigs paid little, relying heavily on the door. Wasn't making much money, but certainly was playing a lot and writing/recording a lot.
Been in bands, original and cover, while working a day job - which means no travel except on weekends.
And then there's the cats that tour constantly for name actsin arenas, concert venues, and casinos - who live solely off of the earnings of their instrumental abilities.
I call all of these people professiobal musicians. 2¢
Also teachers. Both institutional and private. Can't forget those guys. I have never taught, but my wife did - piano, guitar, voice for years as well as playing in cover bands and chamber ensembles.
And studio cats/rats. Can't forget them either. There's all kinds of ways to be a "pro" musician in my [weak] mind.
Many amateurs have paid for a gig or some gigs - this isn't not enough determining professional.... I played many gigs with my friends, old classmates who have civil jobs and don't wanna make a living from playing, unlike me.
I have made the majority of my living and income strictly by playing music gigs since 1999. If I could find a day gig that paid a similar hourly wage, that I enjoyed, I would gladly do it. But I dont have any professional business or trade skills. So the only kinds of day jobs I can get are of the low skill, low pay kind. Accordingly, those kinds of jobs not only dont pay well, they offer little job satisfaction. So a warehouse job that pays $12.50/hour involves 8 long hours of boring routine, general labour, inventory, busy work, cleaning, etc...that adds up to a whopping $100 for the entire day. Meanwhile, I can play a cover gig where I play for around 3 hours, make $125-and up. Plus, its fun, easy, and I get to meet chicks! Easy choice!
I have made the majority of my living and income strictly by playing music gigs since 1999. If I could find a day gig that paid a similar hourly wage, that I enjoyed, I would gladly do it. But I dont have any professional business or trade skills. So the only kinds of day jobs I can get are of the low skill, low pay kind. Accordingly, those kinds of jobs not only dont pay well, they offer little job satisfaction. So a warehouse job that pays $12.50/hour involves 8 long hours of boring routine, general labour, inventory, busy work, cleaning, etc...that adds up to a whopping $100 for the entire day. Meanwhile, I can play a cover gig where I play for around 3 hours, make $125-and up. Plus, its fun, easy, and I get to meet chicks! Easy choice!
that would make you a hobby musician. If what little you make barely covers gear and expenses, yes. More of a hobby. You probably like buying new gear. I dont. I have been making my living on a Mexican P-Bass I bought way back in 1997. That $350 bass has paid my rent and bills for over 20 years.
So ok.... if for example you are a manager of a restaurant and it's ow closed. That is still your "profession" your just not using your pro skills at the moment. Ya have to pretend COVID is " not here" for this conversation. You are what you are in profession nothing changed except you can't do your job now. If all was "pre-COVID" and you had no gigs lined up, doesn't mean your not what you are.
Don't let our world's problems change you. Keep your head up, keep your chops up, we will be doing our profession soon ..... I hope.
I'm enjoying this thread. Some of the latest posters sound more like me. A big difference between when I was a full-time player and now is the lack of opportunities to play decent paying live gigs. To make my monthly basic expenses for most of the 70's, 80's, and 90's I figured I had to play twenty gigs a month, which was almost always doable. The best months were June and December, when I could easily expect to play at least fifty(50) gigs a month, especially around Christmas. Now it seems like that can't be true, but my old date books confirm it. I didn't teach or travel much, just played in my local area 95% of the time. My point here is not to say I was so great, because I wasn't close to being as good a player as some others in my area, but I was lucky enough to get with the right people who also made it an enjoyable experience. I could pretty much pick and choose who I wanted to work with and get paid a decent amount for it. It seems so different now. I could see it changing in the early 2000's when everything slowed down- fewer gigs, less money, generally poorer working conditions, basic necessities got more expensive. I moved out west, got more into teaching, and played as much as I could- found more good players and readjusted to a new scene. Playing full time was a great life. I doubt that it's possible now. I have some students with some interest in a professional career but I can't encourage them to be full-timers.
So let's see. My lifetime approximates the following; over 3000 gigs plus all the studio work. That must be close. Please note I only played pro for about 10 years os so. Now, no gigs, just a couple of sessions a month when healthy enough.
By the book, if you get paid, you are a professional. But, I agree that you need a certain level of payment, with some regular consistent employment to be considered "professional". Before COVID, our band was starting to open for some national touring bands (CKY, Ratt, Sebastian Bach, to name a few), and we started to get paid some decent money for those gigs. However, I don't consider myself a professional musician. I don't make enough to claim it as income on taxes, especially after paying for gear, gas, and guzzling.... If you know someone that plays 2 gigs a month, and the gigs are weddings that pay good money, then I would say you can call yourself a professional. But if you play 2 gigs a month to an empty room in a tiny dive, and your payment is like 40-50 bucks, I would not say that qualifies.
Not quite... It isn't that I like to buy lots of gear, my income from playing goes to the bands PA and equipment that we had to buy in order to play (it has to get paid for somehow, we don't have "backlines" or provided FOH support in this area very often). I have 2 basses, neither cost much. My other equipment is a Rumble combo and a cheap zoom pedal. Glad you make a living playing, I would consider you a professional musician. I said that I am not, but it's more than a hobby... we have contracts, responsibilities and the earnings go toward the band as a joint venture.
The word "professional" has multiple meanings.
On one level, it means anyone who plays music as a public performance, particularly for monetary compensation, though professionals can and do also sometimes play without receiving monetary compensation.
A more stringent definition is a person whose primary economic activity is that of performing music for monetary compensation. I definitely include music educators in this category, and anyone who doesn't has mental issues.
Such a person might have other income sources, but their primary source of income is music. You will probably discover that people who fall into this category (and even more who *don't*, lol) jealously guard the use of the term, "professional musician", often to the point of disdaining those who do not fall into this category by their definition, including themselves.
"Professionalism" is a related idea that describes how competently and with how much dignity, care, and conscientiousness with which one performs one's job as a musician.
As a final note, there are extremely wide disparities in pay in the music business. Pretty much any monkey who can play an instrument can play in a cover/wedding/p&w band and be well-paid, even make a majority or all of their income in that manner, while another musician can perform nothing but original music in dive bars/"rock clubs" and be grossly underpaid, because that is the nature of the business. Pay varies with genre, and the punters don't pay for original music, because they are going out to enjoy themselves after a day or a week of hard work, and they want a guarantee for their money.
Some people here would call one of these musicians a professional and the other an amateur, or grudgingly, a "semi-pro". I call them both professionals, but as a musician, I respect only one of them for it.
On one level, it means anyone who plays music as a public performance, particularly for monetary compensation, though professionals can and do also sometimes play without receiving monetary compensation.
A more stringent definition is a person whose primary economic activity is that of performing music for monetary compensation. I definitely include music educators in this category, and anyone who doesn't has mental issues.
Such a person might have other income sources, but their primary source of income is music. You will probably discover that people who fall into this category (and even more who *don't*, lol) jealously guard the use of the term, "professional musician", often to the point of disdaining those who do not fall into this category by their definition, including themselves.
"Professionalism" is a related idea that describes how competently and with how much dignity, care, and conscientiousness with which one performs one's job as a musician.
As a final note, there are extremely wide disparities in pay in the music business. Pretty much any monkey who can play an instrument can play in a cover/wedding/p&w band and be well-paid, even make a majority or all of their income in that manner, while another musician can perform nothing but original music in dive bars/"rock clubs" and be grossly underpaid, because that is the nature of the business. Pay varies with genre, and the punters don't pay for original music, because they are going out to enjoy themselves after a day or a week of hard work, and they want a guarantee for their money.
Some people here would call one of these musicians a professional and the other an amateur, or grudgingly, a "semi-pro". I call them both professionals, but as a musician, I respect only one of them for it.
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