If you have enough draw to make this profitable, then you probably have enough draw to get a gig that doesn't play these games.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
what is pay to play?
- Thread starter axelrod
- Start date
Yes.
IMO, unless it is like some gigantic band headlining where you could possibly get some exposure, RUN!
Think about it, your group would be at the whim of the venue; what's the split if another band is playing with you? How many tickets would you have to "sell" in order to break even? Are pre-sales involved?
IMO, venues are looking for bands to fund them, not provide venues for groups/acts to play.
Sort of like local taxpayers paying for professional sports teams stadiums; in the hopes it brings in money for the area.
Good luck.
We will also do it occasionally if its a venue in a new market for us. We go in light the first time to prove ourselves. Once we do, its regular business. Every show is an opportunity to build your fan base, use it to your advantage
For me, this seems to have started many years ago in California and other states followed suit.
Get your friends and family to help cover the cost. Once a bar knows you can draw, payment could go away. Until then most bars won’t charge you to play for the door and will eventually have a payment setup regardless of your draw.
Get your friends and family to help cover the cost. Once a bar knows you can draw, payment could go away. Until then most bars won’t charge you to play for the door and will eventually have a payment setup regardless of your draw.
These opinions and accounts of situations are really helpful, ie, good ammunition in talking these bums out of it. I already believe it is a losing prop for this group, but they really want gigs. We will continue to get them in other, slower, ways. Thanks everyone, as usual a good variety of opinions, but the winning vote is NO. I'm not a desperate punk kid, well maybe a punk, and neither is my band, although we range widely in age, both physically, musically, and mentally, so we don't need any extra shite, but I'm glad they are so enthusiastic to get out there with our new material. Slow down my friends...that's what I think I will say, and also, "well who you gonna get to play bass?"
ps. $175 total for sound person
ps. $175 total for sound person
PaulCISSA
Unsweetened, highly-caffeinated
It’s “open mic night” on steroids. It depreciates the value of ALL working musicians when it’s allowed to become normal. When the business model shifts all the financial risk to the performer, it’s time to examine why you play there.
I’ve never played an open mic or a p2p arrangement. Maybe I’m old and cranky, but when that circumstance comes up, I’m out. Find someplace else to play.
I’ve never played an open mic or a p2p arrangement. Maybe I’m old and cranky, but when that circumstance comes up, I’m out. Find someplace else to play.
From time to time we’d get asked to sell presale (pay to play). We had a good following, so we’d never have trouble selling tickets. We’d show up with the money before the show and ask the “promoter” (old Greek word for money taker) what’s our cut?
A dollar a head, two dollars a head was not a good answer.
One time we asked a “promoter” what he thought was fair for our share. He said “I think nothing is fair.” He said they’re putting us on their website for publicity and that’s what we get out of the deal - listen guy, no one knows about some dive’s restaurant.
We said adios.
A dollar a head, two dollars a head was not a good answer.
One time we asked a “promoter” what he thought was fair for our share. He said “I think nothing is fair.” He said they’re putting us on their website for publicity and that’s what we get out of the deal - listen guy, no one knows about some dive’s restaurant.
We said adios.
Last edited:
TRANSLATION: YOUR BAND WILL WILL PAY US MONEY FOR THIS GIG. YOU WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY FROM THIS GIG.
How great would it be if the OP presented an argument to his bandmates using this metaphor.
It’s when the establishments your playing at are too damn cheap to pay bands for their time and talent and expect everything for free so they can benefit, need I say more...
When you pay a venue or promoter to put you on a show's card...in my experience usually it's just a way to fill pockets for promoters and venues and you very rarely if ever see a dime from doing it. Some even expect you to bring like hundreds or even thousands of people to the show too and only then you might get a very small percentage. Usually the shows are thrown together with little promo. Case and point...no to pay-to-play!
Last edited:
Let's say you have a $5 cover ... to break even you need 35 at the door. So before anyone makes a dime you need 36 paying customers. If it's just your band and you can draw 100 folks, you'd still only make $325. If there are multiple bands on the bill then you'd share that measly $325 among all of them. Do the math ... it doesn't work.
And if you can attract 100 folks, why wouldn't you get a gig of your own using your own sound man (likely for less than $175, and more like an even share, or run your own sound from the stage) and put ALL the money in your pockets?
And if you can attract 100 folks, why wouldn't you get a gig of your own using your own sound man (likely for less than $175, and more like an even share, or run your own sound from the stage) and put ALL the money in your pockets?
Can be a bad situation. One BL thought we would draw. There was a $500 venue charge, $350 sound/stage crew charge. BL expected a packed house and thought we'd all come out way ahead. I disagreed. Worst of all the venue set the admission way too high.
BL "guaranteed" the few of us that wanted to skip the deal a minimum pay.
BL lost money due to bad weather, inflated ticket price, inflated opinions of what me might draw, and little to no advertising of the event.
My advice. unless you have a following that's willing to pay for a show... avoid at all cost. Other wise, you may end out in the true "pay to play" venue.
BL "guaranteed" the few of us that wanted to skip the deal a minimum pay.
BL lost money due to bad weather, inflated ticket price, inflated opinions of what me might draw, and little to no advertising of the event.
My advice. unless you have a following that's willing to pay for a show... avoid at all cost. Other wise, you may end out in the true "pay to play" venue.
