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what is pay to play?

#82
My band did pay-to-play several times as it is the only way in the Los Angeles area to play "name" clubs. We were able to recoup our outlay every time because we didn't do them very often. Also, we tried to make sure we were playing with "name" acts when we could - Fates Warning, Iron Butterfly, Gary Hoey. When we played with those artists, we were able to reach some new potential fans (especially the Fates Warning gig - we increased our social media presence by over 100% as people sought us out after that gig). The times we did not play with bigger acts than us were not very useful in terms of growing a fanbase.

So... if you know you can draw on your own, it won't hurt to do presales/upfront payment but it probably won't help... and you won't be making much if any money. But if there is an established band that is the right genre fit for you (and I am assuming we are talking about original music: I never heard of a cover band or tribute paying to play), do it for the exposure if you are ready to exploit any traction you get.
 
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#83
axelrod said:
This is from the bar's booker:
"For the show, you'd have control over the door charge, show times, etc. If you are looking to add local artists to the lineup you have full control over that as well and would be responsible for reaching out and adding artists to the lineup. We'll provide door staff, security and a sound engineer for the show which will be covered by the production cost. The production cost to book the venue starts at $175 for the night + $25 for each additional band over the third in the lineup and you'll receive 100% of the door sales. We’ll need a deposit of 50% of the production amount paid upfront to confirm the date with the remaining half due at load-in on the day of the show. "
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So they want your band to actually produce and book the show. I did that once. I was contacted by a booker who asked if there were any other bands I could bring onto the bill with us if he were to book us. So, I booked my band and three others from the same Guitar Center where we all worked. The whole crew came down after work. They were a thirsty bunch as well. It drew pretty well for a weeknight and the bar was packed by the end of the night, but the booker lied later and said there weren't very many people there and they barely made enough to justify being open that night. I didn't work with him again and now that venue is out of business.
 
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#84
axelrod said:
This is from the bar's booker:
"For the show, you'd have control over the door charge, show times, etc. If you are looking to add local artists to the lineup you have full control over that as well and would be responsible for reaching out and adding artists to the lineup. We'll provide door staff, security and a sound engineer for the show which will be covered by the production cost. The production cost to book the venue starts at $175 for the night + $25 for each additional band over the third in the lineup and you'll receive 100% of the door sales. We’ll need a deposit of 50% of the production amount paid upfront to confirm the date with the remaining half due at load-in on the day of the show. "
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Can you find two other bands to do the show that will have a combined draw of 35 people (assuming a $5.00 cover)? At least you wouldn't lose money.

Can you trust the venue's door people?
 
#85
Ross W. Lovell said:
Read again....I believe you'll find multiple bands EACH paying $175.
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I’m not so sure I misread this. It $175 for up to three Band. That is a huge win, not to mention only $25 for each band over 4, and just how many band are you supposed to provide anyway? Further, you are also free to negotiate the fee paid to the other band as you control the door receipts. I’m not seeing much downside here.

axelrod said:
This is from the bar's booker:
"For the show, you'd have control over the door charge, show times, etc. If you are looking to add local artists to the lineup you have full control over that as well and would be responsible for reaching out and adding artists to the lineup. We'll provide door staff, security and a sound engineer for the show which will be covered by the production cost. The production cost to book the venue starts at $175 for the night + $25 for each additional band over the third in the lineup and you'll receive 100% of the door sales. We’ll need a deposit of 50% of the production amount paid upfront to confirm the date with the remaining half due at load-in on the day of the show. "
Click to expand...
 
#86
brianrost said:
No, it is not pay to play. It is "pay the soundman". I have gigged at venues where you get the choice of running the sound yourself or paying for a soundman.
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In a case like the OP is describing, I would gladly run the sound myself (and probably get a better mix out of it).

In my metro of residence there are 2 venues I have dealt with that insisted on us paying for sound and not letting us bring in our own. There may be a third that is like that.
 
#87
This is totally normal and fair. You’re basically being offered to book and promote your own show. I highly recommend it! It’s much more satisfying than only working with promoters.

Go find two or three other bands that can draw, pay a friend $50 to make a sweet poster and then pay $30 to get it printed well, put it up all over town, make a Facebook event, have one of your friends take some pictures of you while you’re practicing and post them to Instagram, tell your friends about it but don’t be a agro or anything, and with any luck, you’ll finish the night with a wad of cash, two or three other bands that are in your debt, and you’ll be a DIY concert promoter.

Having done this music thing both ways I can tell you, this is the way to go for local shows :bassist:

axelrod said:
This is from the bar's booker:
"For the show, you'd have control over the door charge, show times, etc. If you are looking to add local artists to the lineup you have full control over that as well and would be responsible for reaching out and adding artists to the lineup. We'll provide door staff, security and a sound engineer for the show which will be covered by the production cost. The production cost to book the venue starts at $175 for the night + $25 for each additional band over the third in the lineup and you'll receive 100% of the door sales. We’ll need a deposit of 50% of the production amount paid upfront to confirm the date with the remaining half due at load-in on the day of the show. "
Click to expand...
 
#88
@axelrod id also recommend being upfront with the other acts. If you’re booking the show says so and don’t offer them guarantees if you’re not getting one. Say you’ll be fair with the money but absolutely pay yourselves more for doing the extra work unless you land a band with much better draw than you.

Put it this way, if you book three bands and only 18 people show up, you haven’t lost money, and I bet you can get way more than 18 people to show up.
 
#89
axelrod said:
This is from the bar's booker:
"For the show, you'd have control over the door charge, show times, etc. If you are looking to add local artists to the lineup you have full control over that as well and would be responsible for reaching out and adding artists to the lineup. We'll provide door staff, security and a sound engineer for the show which will be covered by the production cost. The production cost to book the venue starts at $175 for the night + $25 for each additional band over the third in the lineup and you'll receive 100% of the door sales. We’ll need a deposit of 50% of the production amount paid upfront to confirm the date with the remaining half due at load-in on the day of the show. "
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This would have saved a lot of people a lot of typing. The only issue I'd have is that the venue staffs the door. You NEED your own person there, to make sure that NO ONE gets comp'd in. Not the venue's regular hang-a-rounds, no one. Other wise, it isn't a bad deal IF you set the price of admission to something your audience (and the others, if there are any) will pay, and that enough come to cover your expenses. Pretty much it's your thing, do what you wanna do ... (with apologies to the Isley Brothers). It could work. It could even be fun.
 
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#90
RustyAxe said:
This would have saved a lot of people a lot of typing. The only issue I'd have is that the venue staffs the door. You NEED your own person there, to make sure that NO ONE gets comp'd in. Not the venue's regular hang-a-rounds, no one. Other wise, it isn't a bad deal IF you set the price of admission to something your audience (and the others, if there are any) will pay, and that enough come to cover your expenses. Pretty much it's your thing, do what you wanna do ... (with apologies to the Isley Brothers). It could work. It could even be fun.
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This. Information is a wonderful thing


X10.
 
#91
addylewis said:
I know what you mean...but in reality at least half the places locally have this "sell tickets" thing and I've never played at any of them (bar 1) and it can get tedious playing the same local places all the time...

I have a policy of not paying to watch bands I've never heard of...last time I walked past a venue with a gig on (one of those I never go into) I asked the guy outside how much it was to get in - £8...I'm sorry but I'm not risking it lol
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Ah gotcha. Well, a lot of venues around here that just pretty much any band can play at there is really no restrictions however if you do not bring a lot of people or they don't show you just don't make any money. Some do offer a free drink though so that's something.
 
#92
brianrost said:
No, it is not pay to play. It is "pay the soundman". I have gigged at venues where you get the choice of running the sound yourself or paying for a soundman.
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Unless he owns the PA and that is part of the cost when the guy running the board is getting more than I am, or quite possibly the entire band, I'll pass on playing and take my $175 for running the board.

I took the OP to mean each band is paying a $175 "entry fee" and then splitting the door between them.

If on the other hand the band is paying $175 for sound as a solo act and getting 100% of the door @ say even $5 a head, and the place routinely draws 150-200 people, then it's a fair deal. Otherwise, no.
 
#96
QORC said:
pay to play is for suckers
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batman slapping robin2 pay to play.jpeg
 
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