Something else must be vibrating sympathetically... maybe a broken truss rod? Loose bridge?
- Andrew
- Andrew
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What is this problem with my jazz??
- Thread starter bobbykokinos
- Start date
try lowering the pickup before doing anything else. strange as it sounds, this is probably the cause. when my son got his neck back from being defretted, we changed the pups to the noiseless jazz from fender and the same thing happened. guess what? after lowering the pups, the problem went away. it's a free fix! what do you have to lose?
bobbykokinos said:
Oh My God!
Interesting that the "beats" increase as you go up. Whatever overtone you're putting out, it's constant even when you go up the frets, and almost matches that last note...
I remember playing a B00 SR about 15 years ago that had this problem. It was at a shop. My feeling is that it was happening because of sympathetic vibrations on the other side of the stopped string, which was in contact with frets due to improper neck relief. I think this is what Vintage BT6 was referring to. Try loosening your truss rod to put a little more relief in your neck.
My bass is possessed!!!! 
Hey, it might be a selling point "Awesome jazz bass with built in chorus!"
I lowered the pickups and it did resolve the chorusing issue, atleast on the G string. There is still some on the E string going on but I never play above the 12th on the E anyway. I've never experienced pickups that were strong enough to cause such an effect. Unfortunatly, now since I've lowered them, the output has been cut quite a bit.
Maybe its a good excuse to slap in an active preamp...
Hey, it might be a selling point "Awesome jazz bass with built in chorus!"I lowered the pickups and it did resolve the chorusing issue, atleast on the G string. There is still some on the E string going on but I never play above the 12th on the E anyway. I've never experienced pickups that were strong enough to cause such an effect. Unfortunatly, now since I've lowered them, the output has been cut quite a bit.
Maybe its a good excuse to slap in an active preamp...
aquateen said:
It doesn't sound strange to folks who've been tinkering with electric guitar and basses for 30+ years
bobbykokinos said:
See....
bobbykokinos said:
You made a comment about eyeballin the pickup height. Now, not to pick on you, but you need to use the proper tools and measure the height. Small changes can make a very large difference in how an instrument plays, feels, and sounds. The effect your hearing is caused by having the pickups to high. Ok, you lowered the pickups and now your output is less, DUH! Turn your gain up a litttle, that is what it is for. You don't need an active pre-amp in the bass, Unless you just really want one.
Start from scratch, and do a complete setup. Measure everything so that you can start from a known point. When you do make changes only change ONE part of the setup and then diagnose the effect it has had. If you measure everything properly you may be surprised at some of your figures for relief and action as well as pups heights. Think of your bass as a scientific instrument that requires some precision to function properly. You can then supply artistic energy to that instrument and hopefuuly get what you want from it. I've always said that there is one mod that every bass can use, and that is lessons for the player.
On my jazz I had noticed a similer effect but not nearly to that degree. My bass is set to Fender specs, but the pickups are lower. Bass side is 9/64" and treble is 7/64", these measurements are taken with a 6" machinist ruler. I'am using LaBella deep talkin bass flats. I have a nice smooth sound that is full and clear.
glwanabe said:
In my 15 years of playing bass, I've never experienced a pickup problem like this. Also, in my 15 years, I think I've gotten pretty decent at eye balling the approximate high pickups need to be at.
I know what you are saying about having to be precise and such and, to an extent, I agree. But, alot of the times I just go by the "tweak and adjust until I get what I want method".. Its worked for me for all of these years and I doubt I'll change my habits.
And about the output of the pickups and your response of "Duh, turn up the gain". I'm well aware that turning up the gain is the answer for weaker signals. I was just being sarcastic and trying to make an excuse to buy a preamp. But, on a serious note, I try to set my pickup heights on all of my basses to have similar output volumes. That way I dont have to screw with the gain too much everytime I switch basses during a gig..
Bobby,
My comment, "DUH, turn the gain up" was also sarcastic. Like I said, if you want a pre-amp buy one. It's your money spend it how you want. I've got a drawer full of stuff I wanted that I don't use right now. Also, I said that I was not picking on you. I was trying to point out to everyone who may read this, that you need to take a scientific, methodical approach to instrument setup. People need to understand cause and effect for each change they make on the instrument. Raising the bridge sadddles causes three measurements to be changed. The action, pickup height and intonation.
You've said that your going to just tweak to what feels right, ok. I will have to say that I can't eyeball the difference between 7/64 and 9/64, but the difference makes a big difference in sound on my bass. With the pickups to far away I lose output without improvement in sound, having the pickup at the "sweet spot" gives me good output without wolftones or harsness. I hope we can keep this discussion friendly
Best regards, Glwanabe.
My comment, "DUH, turn the gain up" was also sarcastic. Like I said, if you want a pre-amp buy one. It's your money spend it how you want. I've got a drawer full of stuff I wanted that I don't use right now. Also, I said that I was not picking on you. I was trying to point out to everyone who may read this, that you need to take a scientific, methodical approach to instrument setup. People need to understand cause and effect for each change they make on the instrument. Raising the bridge sadddles causes three measurements to be changed. The action, pickup height and intonation.
You've said that your going to just tweak to what feels right, ok. I will have to say that I can't eyeball the difference between 7/64 and 9/64, but the difference makes a big difference in sound on my bass. With the pickups to far away I lose output without improvement in sound, having the pickup at the "sweet spot" gives me good output without wolftones or harsness. I hope we can keep this discussion friendly
Best regards, Glwanabe.
glwanabe said:
Im being totally friendly. Sorry if I came off sounding like a jerk.
I think you have some very valid points.. And, you know honestly, one of these days when I do have some free time I'm going to try to sit down and do a proper setup on my basses with the right tools and such. I think they feel good now as they are setup. But, who knows, if I actually going in and take precise measurements on everything, it may feel and sound like a totally different instrument by the time I'm done..
So, anyway. I wasnt trying to be rude. I was just trying to make you aware that I do have some bass background and was stumped by this problem. It was one of those things where, with what I know in 15 years, that I've tried every option to fix it but didnt realize the pickups could cause such a problem..
BassFelt said:It doesn't sound strange to folks who've been tinkering with electric guitar and basses for 30+ years
See....
Yeah, I did that last year. Went through all the standard Fender measurements and tried to do it all on my basses as opposed to my eyeballing method. Truss rod: already set on exactly the relief they recommend. Strings: already set, too. Pickups: a fair amount lower than they recommend. I raised them to spec, and the strings kept banging into them. I lowered them back. Output is fine.bobbykokinos said:
Regardless, you should never have to lower pickups to where output is drastically cut. Even if you had those pickups like 1/16 inch under the strings, I can't imagine it causing that to that degree. If the problem is, indeed, the pickups, then maybe you shold get them rewound or replaced if they're causing that. I think you need a professional opinion from a luthier who's got it in his hands.
JimmyM said:
That is my experience EXACTLY. My jazz basses are all pretty close to Fender spec in every respect, except pickup height - I find the published figures on the Fender site are based on pickups really close to the strings and they "get in the way" (with my playing style) just as you describe. I've looked at a lot of Fender basses, with good setups, and none of them seem to have pickups as close to the strings as Fender suggest. With the pickups set where I like them for tone and string clearance, the output of my J basses is still on a par with my SR4, Ric, Status (with 18V electrics). I should point out here that I have Nordie pups with a J-Retro in one bass and EMGs in the others, so obviously this is not standard we're talking about! That said, I've played plenty of stock Fenders with pickups set lower than spec, as I mentioned, and never really noticed output problems.
Jimmy - having pickups too close to the strings can cause wolf tones like the ones in the clip, as I'm sure you're aware. These just seems a particularly bad case! If the problem has been solved by lowering the pickups, I don't think there's necessarily much wrong with them, providing the outout of the bass is in the right ballpark when compared to other well setup Fenders. Some pickups are worse for this than others, presumably because of field strength. Active pups like EMGs have weaker fields and can be positioned a lot closer to the strings without this problem, if that's what a player wants.
I agree with you that getting a good tech guy to look at it would be a good thing, though, even if only for "peace of mind."
Actually I wasn't aware of what causes that. It's the first time I ever heard anything like that in 30 years! And now that I know that it can be caused by it, my next question is "why?"
Just found this description of what guitarists call "Stratitis"...JimmyM said:
"Dirty or rusty strings can also cause this, but many players know this horrible phenomenon is caused by excessively strong magnets in the pickups. Here's how it works. What happens is the magnets of the pickups pull a section of the string (the part that's over the pickups) into a U shaped vibration path. Normally the strings vibrate in what is essentially a single-plane path or pattern. Lets say that the time taken for a string (not subjected to excessive magnet pull) to complete one cycle or oscillation is X milliseconds. Travelling in a U shaped path it actually takes longer to complete one cycle or oscillation since the distance is greater via a U shaped path, so the time is X + Y milliseconds. Now it's getting clear that what you have is a string that has a section of it's length vibrating in a U shaped path and part of the remaining section traveling in a direct single-plane path and yet other sections traveling at all frequencies between these two extremes. This means that the three sections are actually vibrating at many different frequencies when the string should be vibrating uniformly at a single frequency. What happens when you mix all these different frequencies together? Uggghhh, dissonant Stratitis that's what! It's bad enough hearing 2 non-harmonious notes coming from a single string, but when you get multiple dissonant frequencies (or notes) being produce simultaneously from a single string the results are absolutely horrendous. A string that's out of tune with itself no less, big time. That is what regular Strat pickups do; the excessively strong magnets also cause the strings to crash into the frets resulting in buzzes and rattles and loss of sustain."
Never really known the cause of it myself, to be honest, and I'm not entirely convinced by the above. But it is a fairly well known effect. Just do a Google for "wolf tones caused by pickups". Here's another couple of quotes...
"Adjusting single coil pickups any closer can cause false notes or "wolf tones." If you've ever played a Strat® that sounded like you were getting two notes from one string (usually the wound strings) in the upper registers, you have witnessed this anomaly. It is most often referred to as "Strat-itis" and can cause a lot of head scratching unless you know what is happening. To cure the problem, simply back the bass side of the neck and middle pickups further away from the strings."
"The term 'wolf note' is also used to describe the effect of raising the pickups too high on an electric guitar. This causes the magnets in the pickup to interfere with the string's motion, causing strange effects, sometimes warbling and sometimes just dissonance."
Interesting....
Ya, very interesting. I guess I never experienced that because I always change my strings and keep my pickups sort of far from the strings.
