What is trolling?

[Dr. Cheese]

Lately, a lot of old threads I started have been searched and discussion started again about the topic. One thread feature some rough interaction between me and another member over what I saw as trolling. If I remember corrrectly, we talked privately and came to an understanding.

That brings me to my topic, trolling. In my opinion, trolling is when one deliberately goes against the consensus of a thread just to get a reaction. Here is an example: a few years ago, Ronnie James Dio died and there was a tribute thread in his honor. I read the thread and learned more about an artist who I only knew of through old videos and I learned about him and his variety of Metal. I left the thread more knowledgeable. I contrast this to when Prince died and the great majority mourned his passing, but some people took great pleasure in saying how they disliked him or recounted stories they were negative. Of course, their defense was that they had a right to express their opinions.

My question is when does opinion turn into trolling? I feel that we should look at the tenor of a thread. Is it a commemoration or is it a genuine discussion? People posting might want to ask themselves if they really want to take part in a discussion or do they just want to toss a stink bomb?

The bottom line is that I think as a community, we should strive for intelligent conversation instead of simply stirring up controversy, I know it can be hard to know where to draw the line.

 

[BismarckHerring]

My question is when does opinion turn into trolling? I feel that we should look at the tenor of a thread. Is it a commemoration or is it a genuine discussion? People posting might want to ask themselves if they really want to take part in a discussion or do they just want to toss a stink bomb?

I agree 100% that that is how people should behave on a forum (and in real life), but I also think people should be careful with accusations of trolling. I sometimes see people being accused of trolling when they’re just giving their honest opinion, and that’s often when the discussion gets out of hand. A tone-deaf comment can be just that, and it’s fine to call it out, but it’s only trolling if the comment is specifically made to get people worked up. Calling someone a troll is assuming you know their intentions, and you should be careful with that, because people can be very sensitive about it. My rule of thumb is: when in doubt, assume that the other was being tactless, not intentionally out to annoy people.

I haven’t seen the thread you mentioned, but seeing that you worked it out over private messages, I suspect that the other person wasn’t trolling. If he were, he would have just tried to get you more agitated. But again, I don’t now the specifics of the situation, so I could be wrong here.

Thumper's dad said it best: If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. So many saw Bambi, but missed this gem.

And if you must say something, remember: It’s okay to not like things, just don’t be a $*&@ about it.

 

[SharpCat]

It's about intent, not just going against the consensus. If we were in the SharpCat appreciation thread (I can dream!) and everyone was "SharpCat is great", "SharpCat rocks", etc and someone came in to say "SharpCat stole my money", and I actually had stolen it, that's not trolling. It's a legit different opinion.

"What the mods will delete" isn't right either--lots of out-of-bounds topics aren't trolling.

It's the intent to make others mad/sad/whatever as a control technique. Stating things that are not part of the original discussion, ad hominem attacks, repeated assertions of the same set of facts, and lots of other behavior does count.

 

[definenredefine]

I think it's making comments that are needlessly contrarian or mean or whatever, just to get negative reactions out of people. Bullying essentially. Which is pretty much what others have said upthread.

I've found that the few times I've gotten locked in a dogfight with an individual like this, I simply type, "Whatever" and leave the thread.

I think this is a good way to handle those situations. When I have allowed myself to get caught up in those doom loops, it makes me feel pretty crummy. Better to just move on with our lives.

And if you must say something, remember: It’s okay to not like things, just don’t be a $*&@ about it.

Lately, I've really thought hard about this. In discussions about subjective topics (music, for example), I tend to have an unhealthy inclination towards stating my opinion as fact, or registering a negative opinion about the topic at hand, etc. Part of it is trying to be funny, I guess. But after a while I thought that there's really no value in telling someone that I don't care for the thing that they enjoy. Doesn't make me feel good and I can't imaging that the other party cares for my opinion anyhow. So nothing good really comes from it. I think it's better to just keep scrolling rather than feeling the need to crap on something someone else likes.

 

[JRA]

What is trolling?​

i'm not sure: i can tell that some responses are "trolling" (or at least they seem to be, given the context). but some posts strike me as 'playful' (sarcasm, wit?), but only after i get more context, say, as the discussion/topic develops.

it has been pointed out regularly, by many, that we're all victims of the limitations of the words on the page --- no benefit of the 'nuance' that we'd enjoy in a face-to-face interaction where tone of voice, facial expressions, body movements, etc. play a key role in communication. if we're discussing alloys for bass bridges, that kind of 'nuance' may not be so critical. still, if we want to discuss more "personal stuff," those important aspects of interpersonal communication are missing --- and impossible to parlay without putting more words on the page --- and more words on the page still may not be enough to convey what a wink or a nod or a smile (or a grimace, a blank look, a look of surprise, etc.) could communicate in a face-to-face interaction.

so, i'm not sure i can properly identify "trolling" as the term is used online.

 

[Minimalist]

Social media and the internet damaged our collective ability to have a decent meaningful discussion. Be respectful, even if you disagree.

I'm not shy to voice my opinion even if it is controversial or goes against popular believe but posting negative stuff about anybody in a tribute post/thread is just bad taste.

 

[el murdoque]

That brings me to my topic, trolling. In my opinion, trolling is when one deliberately goes against the consensus of a thread just to get a reaction. Here is an example: a few years ago, Ronnie James Dio died and there was a tribute thread in his honor. I read the thread and learned more about an artist who I only knew of through old videos and I learned about him and his variety of Metal. I left the thread more knowledgeable. I contrast this to when Prince died and the great majority mourned his passing, but some people took great pleasure in saying how they disliked him or recounted stories they were negative. Of course, their defense was that they had a right to express their opinions.

My question is when does opinion turn into trolling?

Trolling requires two things: First of all, the posting of a controversial opinion that sparks a strong reaction - which is the obvious bit. There'd be no trolling without it.

Secondly, the intention behind the post is more or less solely to spark a strong reaction with those who are opposed to the posted proposition.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Trolling requires two things: First of all, the posting of a controversial opinion that sparks a strong reaction - which is the obvious bit. There'd be no trolling without it.

Secondly, the intention behind the post is more or less solely to spark a strong reaction with those who are opposed to the posted proposition.

Controversy is in the eye of the beholder. People expressing their admiration for an artist after his or her death should not be controversial.

 

[el murdoque]

Controversy is in the eye of the beholder. People expressing their admiration for an artist after his or her death should not be controversial.

It surely should not.

I can imagine that someone has a very strong opinion or feelings about an artist - indeed so strong that they feel the need to share it upon their death, in the following forum thread. To muddy the waters a bit, because these people feel the need to mix in some bad with the good for their personal reasons.
Mind you, this was not how Mama raised me and I would not do such a thing because of common decency - and I'm in no way defending such behavior.
I'm just stating that, with the "right" reasons behind, it is not trolling.

 

[TonyP-]

I have gone out of my way to say on here more than once and I’m para phrasing myself.
“Text can be taken, incorrectly I mean no disrespect with this….ext….” Just to preference it before saying something that can be misinterpreted.

I do miss a lot of great contributors that left this site because of trolling.

I will say it…

I love Talkbass and meet some great people on here.
I will also say that this place has a it’s share of “moms basement creatons” and “arm chair quarterbacks” that are either angry or just act ridiculous and spout sheer ignorance.

You can quote me on that.

 

[OldShark]

As to the intent of possible trolling, don't forget to take Hanlon's razor into account..

 

[five7]

I don't know if you have really lived until someone has called you a troll.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

Lately, a lot of old threads I started have been searched and discussion started again about the topic. One thread feature some rough interaction between me and another member over what I saw as trolling. If I remember corrrectly, we talked privately and came to an understanding.

That brings me to my topic, trolling. In my opinion, trolling is when one deliberately goes against the consensus of a thread just to get a reaction. Here is an example: a few years ago, Ronnie James Dio died and there was a tribute thread in his honor. I read the thread and learned more about an artist who I only knew of through old videos and I learned about him and his variety of Metal. I left the thread more knowledgeable. I contrast this to when Prince died and the great majority mourned his passing, but some people took great pleasure in saying how they disliked him or recounted stories they were negative. Of course, their defense was that they had a right to express their opinions.

My question is when does opinion turn into trolling? I feel that we should look at the tenor of a thread. Is it a commemoration or is it a genuine discussion? People posting might want to ask themselves if they really want to take part in a discussion or do they just want to toss a stink bomb?

The bottom line is that I think as a community, we should strive for intelligent conversation instead of simply stirring up controversy, I know it can be hard to know where to draw the line.

I think we should be able to express sincere contrary opinions. Otherwise you get weird situations like everyone agreeing Bob Dylan is a genius out of fear of being contrarian.

IMO Trolling is deliberately trying to p everyone off and whip up a frenzy by saying something you don’t even really believe, but know will make some people flip out. Just to watch the chaos.

 

[JRA]

As to the intent of possible trolling, don't forget to take Hanlon's razor into account..

also: Grice’s razor: Address what the speaker actually meant, instead of addressing the literal meaning of what they actually said.
“Conversational implications are to be preferred over semantic context for linguistic explanations.” — Paul Grice

I don't know if you have really lived until someone has called you a troll.

no kidding!

the last time i was called a troll = an apparently 'devout' TB member disagreed with my assertion that playing at church was a type of "gig." when i asked him to elucidate his POV (e.g., what's the difference?), he called me a troll. i was annoyed while reading the word "troll,", but then i had to consider hanlon's razor:

Hanlon’s razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence or stupidity.

 

[GR7G5TER]

In Alaska we have a much more fun version of trolling.
View attachment 7206894
Sorry for the bad pun just thought I’d throw some humor into this thread before it gets depressing.
Flag my comment if you must, I won’t be offended.

Oooh someone deliberately misinterprets OP in an attempt to appear edgey and relevant!

@AK Bass Guy I thought your post was hilarious, it literally had me lolling, and was a fantastic example of how to troll, (I totally got the joke but....

We use a lot of sarcasm in the US which doesn’t translate well to a screen.

I'd raise you that you didn't use sarcasm but genuine irony (not the Alanis misinterpretation) and the usage the the origin of the terms which will no doubt be overlooked by some) but the my only reasonable response had to be in the form of a trolling post! Absolutely no offence meant!

Well played Sir, I salute you!

Thanks for proving my point, sort of. You cracked a joke instead of adding to the discussion, but you were not being negative and attacking anyone.

I think this greatly added to the discussion in terms of showing an example of trolling (taking a view counter to the of the OP) and it injected some humour into the mix as the thread, I predict will be pretty dark and a troll fest in no time (internet please prove me wrong)!

My view is that trolling is taking a deliberate opposing view to cause offence, bad feeling or/and derail a conversation to get negative comments and reactions.

However taking a deliberate opposing view to provoke thought, deeper understanding or interesting discussion can and does look identical to the former.

I do see some on here and every other corner of the internet crying "Troll" when they lack the skills to counter or oppose a view being presented to them.

I've not seen or read the threads you mentioned btw.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Intent

 

[skygzr]

You troll for fish, right? Bass is a kind of fish, right? So trolling should be OK here, right?

I remember seeing people post "don't feed the trolls" in response to a deliberately provocative post. This is in reference another kind of "troll", the one who lives under the bridge and kills everyone who tries to pass. A gatekeeper, as it were.

Proper trolling is a complicated and nuanced job.

 

[Guitalia]

Trolling might be the one genuine art form to have arisen in the new world of online social media, given the premise that art can be defined as any object produced or act performed to engender an authentic emotional reaction in others.

Most of the examples suggested so far in this thread represent techniques that evolved in the early years of social media. Current sophisticated trolling, consisting of apparently innocent comments ("I'm only asking/saying" now being implicit rather than explicit), succeeds by provoking in the reader a response akin to the uncanny-valley confusion and revulsion triggered by mediocre CGI.

I went back to school in my early '40's to finish my college degree, where, surrounded by people 20 years younger, I felt like someone from a remote tribe encountering modern civilization for the first time.

Sure, I was familiar with the use of irony, but not with the complexly layered versions of irony I heard around me, "I'm pretending to be the sort of person who thinks I'm cool because I'm being ironic" being only the second of many possible layers. I came to think of it as "nested-quotes" speech, with the number of quotation-mark pairs limited only by the degree of ironic knowingness the speaker and their cohort had attained. Since then, the internet has facilitated the spread of that form of trolling into the wider world.

Trolling is irritating, no question. But I've sometimes hoped that irony in its various forms, including trolling, would become the dominant form of discourse everywhere, the response to irony being a second-order emotion, distinct from our more primitive, savagely destructive emotions.

But that hope is pretty much dead, hatred having proved to be supremely useful for manipulating populations. (Anyway, as Randy Newman said many years ago about the popular reception of his song "I Love L.A."---"Americans aren't big on irony.")

 

[Gilmourisgod]

My definition of trolling is when somebody deliberately assumes a contrarian pose, not because of any strongly held or well considered opinion, but because they enjoy creating chaos and "owning" the target. Sound familiar? Luckily I haven't seen too much of that on TB. I'm not sure dogged persistence in defending a strongly held opinion qualifies, but that can easily cross the line into personal attacks and hyperbole.The moderators do a pretty good job of limiting that. I've caught myself straying close to that line a couple times and dialed it back, and went over the line couple times early on, not proud of that.. We all love basses, better to get in, state your opinion, and get out. If you find yourself "ignoring" a lot of other TB members, consider it might be you who is the problem.

 

[dune]

My definition of trolling is when somebody deliberately assumes a contrarian pose, not because of any strongly held or well considered opinion, but because they enjoy creating chaos and "owning" the target. Sound familiar? Luckily I haven't seen too much of that on TB. I'm not sure dogged persistence in defending a strongly held opinion qualifies, but that can easily cross the line into personal attacks and hyperbole.The moderators do a pretty good job of limiting that. I've caught myself straying close to that line a couple times and dialed it back, and went over the line couple times early on, not proud of that.. We all love basses, better to get in, state your opinion, and get out. If you find yourself "ignoring" a lot of other TB members, consider it might be you who is the problem.

Spot-on.
These days I like to enter into discussions taking my cue from "improv" - finding something to say "Yes" to.
Many younger people I see being interviewed these days, quite literally begin every response with the word "Yes".

 

[mambo4]

"trolling" is fishing for something: attention. You drag your line into the depths and hope you hook someone's awareness.
It's a childlike attention seeking behavior where the dopamine hit comes from someone else getting upset.
Another human mad at you = you are important, and you got noticed.
If I am an a-hole online maybe mommy and daddy will pay attention to me...
Censored by mods? Blocked by other users? Mommy and daddy noticed me! I win!

Trolling might be the one genuine art form to have arisen in the new world of online social media

I think it's much older than the internet at its heart
When I was ~11 years old offensive or gross jokes were in vogue.
Anything that shocked a grown up was cool.
It's the same pre-adolescent impulse.
Many never grown beyond it.

Starving the troll of attention is the best counter. Don't feed the trolls.
And FFS don't give them microphones and air time