Double Bass What is your favorite cab for your upright

[Mike Arnopol]

The idea is very different. We both source our custom drivers from the same manufacturer. As far as I know, the Phil Jones uses standard cab design. This is dramatically different cabinet design. The contribution of the Waveguide/Vortex allows one driver to go as loud as 2.5 of the same driver. And the lack of unloading of the speaker and the fact that there is no cabinet tuning allwos a MUCH lower -3db point.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The idea is very different. We both source our custom drivers from the same manufacturer.

Are the drivers in the cab in this pic:

the same 5" drivers that Phil uses (They look cosmetically different from the ones in my combo amp)? If so, that must be one tiny little table!

As far as I know, the Phil Jones uses standard cab design.

I'm not technically inclined at all, so I can't say. But I have noticed that his cabinets are very DEEP front to back, and this seems to be different from most cabinets I have used (19 x 12.6 x 16.1 inch (H x W x D) ); the ratio of width to depth in the PJB cabs seems unusual to me. A tech-minded guitarist I play with sometimes LOVES the sound of the combo, and theorizes that the depth of the cab has a lot to do with why it sounds so "thick". Dunno if he's right.

This is dramatically different cabinet design. The contribution of the Waveguide/Vortex allows one driver to go as loud as 2.5 of the same driver. And the lack of unloading of the speaker and the fact that there is no cabinet tuning allwos a MUCH lower -3db point.

Didn't know you spoke Sanskrit.

Seriously, I'd love to see a picture of the back of the cab with all of the little tweeters. It's an interesting design. Any reason it couldn't be made with a built in polemount flange?

 

[bucephylus]

FYI, Thomastik makes Spirocores and weich is their designation for light/soft strings so they could be Spirocore Weichs? If they have purple silks at peg end and red silks at ball end, they are Spiro weichs

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Aha, apparently misinterpreted what Steve told me. I'll try to get a pic this weekend to see if you cats can help ID. (Sorry for derail)

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Those 5" drivers are Faitals.A lot of guys don't agree but I think that cabinet depth does affect the bass response. I've experimented extensively with cab proportions. The Big E's are a different animal and different rules apply. This cab is 21 x 15 x 11 and weighs about 26#.

Our 6 1/2's are from the same manufacturer as Phil"s. I went with the Faitals because they are extremely high fidelity but are a bit warmer and sound great with upright. This cab was designed from the get go as the best DB cab that we could come up with.

 

[Clarkybass]

Out of interest Mike, as I have a Crazy8 incoming, I am intrigued as to what are the respective volume/projection capabilities of the Big E vs the Crazy8? My band (upright bass, drums, acoustic guitar, mandolin, two vocals) plays 95% of our gigs at venues with a PA and the other 5% are coffee shop-type gigs so I think the Crazy8 should be plenty for me ... but how would you characterise the capabilities of the Big E and how does it compare, say, to one of the bigger upright bass-friendly cabs (eg, my Acme Low B2 4 ohm)?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Those 5" drivers are Faitals.A lot of guys don't agree but I think that cabinet depth does affect the bass response. I've experimented extensively with cab proportions. The Big E's are a different animal and different rules apply. This cab is 21 x 15 x 11 and weighs about 26#.

Our 6 1/2's are from the same manufacturer as Phil"s. I went with the Faitals because they are extremely high fidelity but are a bit warmer and sound great with upright. This cab was designed from the get go as the best DB cab that we could come up with.

I guess I'm confused about the differences between the cabs with the 5" speakers and the cabs with the 6 1/2" drivers, which I may not have seen yet. Which cab is the one Eric H loves so much, and which cab is the one you feel is your personal favorite DB cab?

Also glad to hear that you feel that cabinet depth is a factor. I've heard a few really nice "deep" cabinets over the years, and they all sound different to me than the very shallow cabinets that I've run into.

 

[Ric Vice]

Those 5" drivers are Faitals.A lot of guys don't agree but I think that cabinet depth does affect the bass response. I've experimented extensively with cab proportions. The Big E's are a different animal and different rules apply. This cab is 21 x 15 x 11 and weighs about 26#.

Mike,
Seem's like Faitals are the raw driver that get the best sound for Double Bass applications. The Crazy 8 and 88 used them. Now the smallest Big E Uses them. So my question is why won't they work in the Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112 and 115? Seem's like they'd be perfect for that cabinet. Just a layman's question.
I just took a look at the Faital 12 Pro. they don't come in a 4 ohm version like the Faital Pro. 10's and Pro 8's do. I guess I just answered my own question, how unfortunate. So close and yet, so far.
Ric

Our 6 1/2's are from the same manufacturer as Phil"s. I went with the Faitals because they are extremely high fidelity but are a bit warmer and sound great with upright. This cab was designed from the get go as the best DB cab that we could come up with.

I guess that when I get some cash reserves, I'll drive up to Chicago and test drive one in the spring.

Ric

 

[coyoteboy]

The idea is very different. We both source our custom drivers from the same manufacturer. As far as I know, the Phil Jones uses standard cab design. This is dramatically different cabinet design. The contribution of the Waveguide/Vortex allows one driver to go as loud as 2.5 of the same driver. And the lack of unloading of the speaker and the fact that there is no cabinet tuning allwos a MUCH lower -3db point.

Huh. I was given the distinct impression that Phil makes his own drivers in his own shop in China. Do i have the wrong impression?

 

[kerrycares]

Those 5" drivers are Faitals.A lot of guys don't agree but I think that cabinet depth does affect the bass response. I've experimented extensively with cab proportions. The Big E's are a different animal and different rules apply. This cab is 21 x 15 x 11 and weighs about 26#.

Our 6 1/2's are from the same manufacturer as Phil"s. I went with the Faitals because they are extremely high fidelity but are a bit warmer and sound great with upright. This cab was designed from the get go as the best DB cab that we could come up with.

My next roadtrip to Chi Town will be to check these cabs out.

 

[VegasGutPlucker]

I love my Crazy 88 cabinet, and haven't yet played a gig "small enough" to justify the single 8. They sound so full and warm, I can't imagine a better sounding cab for upright bass.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I guess I'm confused about the differences between the cabs with the 5" speakers and the cabs with the 6 1/2" drivers, which I may not have seen yet. Which cab is the one Eric H loves so much, and which cab is the one you feel is your personal favorite DB cab?

Also glad to hear that you feel that cabinet depth is a factor. I've heard a few really nice "deep" cabinets over the years, and they all sound different to me than the very shallow cabinets that I've run into.

Eric tried the 4 x 5. Goes about as loud as my 88. The 4 x 6 is the one that sits in my car. Not quite as good for DB as the 4 x 5 but better still than anything else I've played. The 4 x 6 is 25 x 14 x 13 1/2 and weighs about 33#.Goes twice as loud as the 4 x 5. About the same volume as a single 15. ( not an uber 15 like the Fearfuls--but close) It has enough volume for 95% of my electric gigs.

If I was just playing DB I'd get a 4 x 5 and call it a day. Unless you do fusionish-too loud--gigs on DB which I do. Then the 4 x 6 is better. If I were a doubler (which I am) and could only have one cab it would be the 4 x 6.
I too thought that Phil had his drivers made in China but I was told that Eminence does his. Maybe that's wrong. Jerry McNutt of Eminence (the designer of the Kappalites among others) is doing our driver design. I think that he's a genius as far as driver design and he's kindof become part of the team. Duke LeJeaune is doing the crossover design.

An advantage of the Big E design is that we can use lower efficiency drivers and the efficiency is boosted. So (thanks to Jerry) we're able to get INSANE excursion and extension in a 6 1/2.



I'm just the dummy that puts 'em together.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Mike,
Seem's like Faitals are the raw driver that get the best sound for Double Bass applications. The Crazy 8 and 88 used them. Now the smallest Big E Uses them. So my question is why won't they work in the Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112 and 115? Seem's like they'd be perfect for that cabinet. Just a layman's question.



I guess that when I get some cash reserves, I'll drive up to Chicago and test drive one in the spring.

Ric

I just took a look at the Faital 12 Pro. they don't come in a 4 ohm version like the Faital Pro. 10's and Pro 8's do. I guess I just answered my own question, how unfortunate. So close and yet, so far.
Ric


Trust me---Duke and I are looking like crazy at the Faitals. He just doesn't to get stuck again in the OEM neo craziness. Which is why the new 1212 uses stock drivers. It's more than just frequency response and power handling with the Faitals. Why do you think that you haven't seen 10" based designs from Duke or Greenboy? (or me) We can't find a 10 that we like. That's why I went with the Faital 8. The new Hathor 1544 uses a 15 " Faital. The others don't work quite as well for our needs.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I love my Crazy 88 cabinet, and haven't yet played a gig "small enough" to justify the single 8. They sound so full and warm, I can't imagine a better sounding cab for upright bass.[/QUOTE

I LOVE the 88. I just like the Big E's more.

As far as the Crazy 8---I haven't been able to find a way to make a Big E that small and light.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Out of interest Mike, as I have a Crazy8 incoming, I am intrigued as to what are the respective volume/projection capabilities of the Big E vs the Crazy8? My band (upright bass, drums, acoustic guitar, mandolin, two vocals) plays 95% of our gigs at venues with a PA and the other 5% are coffee shop-type gigs so I think the Crazy8 should be plenty for me ... but how would you characterise the capabilities of the Big E and how does it compare, say, to one of the bigger upright bass-friendly cabs (eg, my Acme Low B2 4 ohm)?

Hey Mark

The 4 x 6 should go louder and just as low as a B2. Maybe a bit lower---but who cares at that point? The biggest difference with the Big E's is the note envelope. There is just more thump at the beginning of the note and no overhang into the next note. A very nice solution for a sore right hand!

By the way---Andy of Acme makes wonderful cabs.

 

[MR PC]

the Markbass 604 I owned would of been a lot more reliable loaded with the Faitals. Loved the sound, size/weight was pretty good, but the 6.5" B&C drivers in the Markbass are prone to failing using upright at any more than moderate volume. After speaking with US Speaker about the problem, I looked into replacing the B&C's with Faital, but it was cost prohibitive. I had the two problematic B&C's repaired for third time, and sold the cab with a disclaimer. I believe that Faital now makes a more price friendly 6.5", and the specs look real good too.

 

[jz0h4d]

I used the Jones flightcase for a couple of bluegrass gigs , it did sound great but not very loud or low. I,ve been using a line 6 110. I don't like the sound that much but it is so easy to carry around.

 

[Ric Vice]

Trust me---Duke and I are looking like crazy at the Faitals. He just doesn't wan't to get stuck again in the OEM neo craziness again. Which is why the new 1212 uses stock drivers. It's more than just frequency response and power handling with the Faitals. Why do you think that you haven't seen 10" based designs from Duke or Greenboy? (or me) We can't find a 10 that we like. That's why I went with the Faital 8. The new Hathor 1544 uses a 15 " Faital. The others don't work quite as well for our needs.

Mike,
Good stuff for me to know. I'd always preferred smaller cabinets with multiple small drivers until the Thunderchild TC 112 came along. All of my previous cabinets had single or multiple 8" Drivers, a Baby Blue 2x8 extension, a Flite Sound 2x8 with those NEAR black aluminum, liquid suspension drivers, a LDS 2x8 Three Way, and a Euphonic Audio VL 208. So, at some point, I'll head that way again.

Dukes' cabinet just wiped floor with everything I've previously owned. I just played a really nice Jazz gig last Saturday, and the Walter Woods Ultra, TC 112 rig with the Ehrlund EAP and Preamp, and Evah Parazzi Weichs just rocked, or maybe I should say Jazzed, but that sounds weird.

Ric

 

[kerrycares]

Detroit is ready for the Big E M45.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I'm making a batch next week of the 4 x 5's.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Seem's like Faitals are the raw driver that get the best sound for Double Bass applications. The Crazy 8 and 88 used them. Now the smallest Big E Uses them. So my question is why won't they work in the Audiokinesis Thunderchild 112 and 115? Seem's like they'd be perfect for that cabinet.

I've done some protoyping with the Faital 8PR200, and think I could build a pretty decent double-bass cab using a pair of them. But it would fall short of a Kappalite 12-based cab on electric bass, so it would sort of be a one-trick pony unless I marketed it for other instruments as well. I'm not sure there's really a market niche for such a cab at this time.

Mike mentioned that I use a 15" Faital woofer in one of my recent cabs, and I've been very happy with it. Not quite the air-moving ability of the 15" Kappalite variant I use, but still very capable.