What is your job?

[Bunk McNulty]

Sure, I'm not doubting this; but what I was trying to get across is that, from the venue's perspective, not every band is as strong a success as you're having with Redhead. They're looking to hire bands for, say, eight nights a month, and presumably don't want the same band playing all eight nights. Supposing they want, ideally, a six-week rotation between the same band coming back; that's 12 bands they need in the rotation. Will they ALL be as good for business as Redhead is? What if they have, maybe, 10 bands in their market that are that good; the other two slots they're trying out new and uncertain acts; and then maybe one of the 10 good ones breaks up, and a couple of months later another... I can see how, from the venue's perspective, it's a difficult and uncertain area of business. That's the point I was trying to make.

Yes, absolutely. We rotate through eight or nine clubs, much as you describe. We do draw better than most, and our take-home pay reflects that. I should add that our BL is out in the clubs 3-4 nights a week, checking out the competition. The issue around here isn't bands breaking up; it's that they're still playing the same damn sets they were playing 10 years ago. As I've posted before, in addition to gigging with us, she runs two open-mics during the week. Many who show up at those show up at our weekend gigs. It's nice.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Is it that obvious?

 

[4001]

I guess. I think it really says more about people in general. Alcohol is so ingrained in our culture that people don't think they can have fun without it.

An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity.

Just a side thought... baseball players don't have to make sure the "paying customers" are buying their $8 beers at the game, do they?
Didn't think so.

 

[Bassbeater]

belching foul Pabst Blue Ribbon and eating hot wings.

Okay... NOW it's personal!
Thou hast offended me for mine culinary practices.
I challenge you to a hot wing challenge.

 

[Sixgunn]

An estimated 88,0008 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States. The first is tobacco, and the second is poor diet and physical inactivity.

Just a side thought... baseball players don't have to make sure the "paying customers" are buying their $8 beers at the game, do they?
Didn't think so.

Hahaha!! No I wonder why there's such a huge gap in male to female deaths.............

 

[Old P Bass Guy]

I have a book called "Practicing" that gets into it on the personal level. It's by an aspiring classical guitarist that "almost" makes it, puts his guitar down for a decade, and picks it up again, with completely different motives. A truly excellent read.

You mind sharing a little more info on the book? Author, publisher etc. Appreciate it!

 

[Bassbeater]

People... it's a bar. An entire building literally named after the long table where they put the alcohol in exchange for money.

 

[G On Bass]

Our job as a band has many facets.
- We are there to entertain patrons, and we owe it to them to play and perform the best that we can.
- We are there to make ourselves better and tighter as a band to complement the entry above. 1 live gig = 10 rehearsals....
- We are also there to bring people to the venue so that the venue makes money so that we make money so that they will book us again.
- We are NOT there to drink, party, be rude or self-serving, disrespectful or play poorly.
- We are also not there to pay the venue for the privilege of playing there.

That being said, we are fortunate enough to have day jobs, so we pick and choose where we play. Too many places in LA will let anyone play their stage, as long as they come up with a certain amount of money upfront. I've seen it anywhere from $300 to $3,700 for 1 set. They don't care who or how good you are. For $500 I could get a kazoo, put on a Borat Bikini and play a set at a once-famous venue on the Sunset Strip...

 

[Sixgunn]

Sad to see such a rich and complex art form as music beeing reduced to a McDonalds department.

EVERYTHING is exploited and nothing is sacred. Way of the world, my friend. I'm actually a very optimistic and positive person, despite how that sounded

 

[delta7fred]

Because some people never get out of the High School/College frat party drinking lifestyle, and intoxication helps digest all of those crappy, rubbed into the dirt songs most every cover band rubs into the dirt because that is about all the "paying customer" can handle while belching foul Pabst Blue Ribbon and eating hot wings.

Probably best if you don't join a bar band then.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

I agree (except for the "I think you are wrong" part). I think there are lots of good musicians. But I think a flood of bad musicians has damaged the whole thing.

As one guy said, you used to be able to put up a "live music" sign and the people flocked to the place. Now, it can almost be a hindrance due to all the bad experiences people have had with bad live music.

i.e. my statement about bad musicians and your statement about good musicians are both statements I agree with. I just think they are two different subjects.

The "flood of bad musicians" is not happening. It happened 50-60 years ago, when everyone wanted to start a rock band. Now they're too busy doing other things.

 

[hrodbert696]

Just a side thought... baseball players don't have to make sure the "paying customers" are buying their $8 beers at the game, do they?
Didn't think so.

Except that if the baseball team sucks, people will be less enthusiastic about attending, beer sales (and ticket sales) will decline, and the team owners will think about replacing coaches or players. So actually, they do; the players have a market incentive to play well because that's what entices the crowd to spend money and guarantees they can keep working.

Otherwise it's a problematic analogy, because baseball has a pretty fixed set of rules and all the players need to do is play well. Music, on the other hand, has a much wider variety of choices of WHAT to play - genres of music, or song choices. If a standup comedian decided to use monologues from Shakespeare comedies for his act, he might perform them brilliantly, but even so never get a return booking - it's not what the ticket buying public wants to hear on their night out. If an athlete in a town that had lots of baseball fans decided he was going to play cricket instead, just because it was what he liked, then however good he is at it, he's probably not going to find a lot of success getting hired to play in ball parks. So actually, yes - the athlete has to play what people want to watch, and play it well, or they won't pay (whether for tickets or beer) and he'll be playing in his backyard.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Those are just milder forms of prostitution IMHO.

If so, the same with everyone elses day jobs.

 

[4001]

Probably best if you don't join a bar band then.

Yeah, I'd rather be in a REAL band.

 

[hrodbert696]

I do not rely on music for financial gain. I would rather die an unknown pauper than a famous sell out. How many musicians can you name who chose this path in order to be a pawn for merchandisers? There are lots of musicians who started as a pathway to meeting girls/guys. That's not the same as starting a band so the pub owner can increase his bottom line, the town can fill its coffers on DUI charges after the show, or getting free gear as a publicity gag. Those are just milder forms of prostitution IMHO. (Unless you intend to charge potential mates for sex.) What would be cooler than posthumously being a major musical influence. The longer the time delay, the more impressive the achievement. On a personal note, I was going through a box of family heirlooms and found some sheet music to a song my great grandfather wrote during WWI. It's public domain now, but I might be the logical choice to keep it alive. I plan on recording it, even though it is outdated. I guess classical music ages gracefully, whereas popular music may or may not. Who knows? Maybe ragtime will make a comeback.

False dichotomies here. I don't think anyone starts or joins a band ONLY because they want to help bars make money. None of us are out there saying "I really hate this music thing, but I have to do it to pay the bills." For most of us gigs, even paying gigs, are at most a bit of side income, and even for the few who DO pay their bills with it, there are other things they could have been doing if the only purpose was to make money. We ALL play because we love music, and the various posts on threads like this that assume otherwise are, frankly, disrespectful.

If someone hates playing popular tunes, hates Mustang Sally, gets no pleasure out of people in the audience having fun and dancing, then no one is twisting their arm saying they have to do it or they're inferior if they don't. If you want to play for your own satisfaction, your sense of personal creativity or whatever, then go for it. That's great. But some of us DO like entertaining, we DO like the crowd response, we DO value the opportunity to get in front of a crowd and going over. And if you do value those things, then you also have to recognize, especially in the present environment, that opportunities are scarce and getting scarcer and competition is fierce for them. If you don't entertain, if you don't deliver for the venue where the crowd is, you won't get the opportunity to play ANYTHING at that venue for that crowd. That's not a "milder form of prostitution," that's treating people who want to listen to you like THEIR experience counts for something and you're not going to crap on them.

 

[4001]

Except that if the baseball team sucks, people will be less enthusiastic about attending, beer sales (and ticket sales) will decline, and the team owners will think about replacing coaches or players. So actually, they do; the players have a market incentive to play well because that's what entices the crowd to spend money and guarantees they can keep working.

Otherwise it's a problematic analogy, because baseball has a pretty fixed set of rules and all the players need to do is play well. Music, on the other hand, has a much wider variety of choices of WHAT to play - genres of music, or song choices. If a standup comedian decided to use monologues from Shakespeare comedies for his act, he might perform them brilliantly, but even so never get a return booking - it's not what the ticket buying public wants to hear on their night out. If an athlete in a town that had lots of baseball fans decided he was going to play cricket instead, just because it was what he liked, then however good he is at it, he's probably not going to find a lot of success getting hired to play in ball parks. So actually, yes - the athlete has to play what people want to watch, and play it well, or they won't pay (whether for tickets or beer) and he'll be playing in his backyard.

The CUBS, for decades never had to worry about how bad their team was... the bleachers were filled every day with the same unemployed drunks yelling profanities at the players, year after year. Their on field performance dictated their future careers, not beer sales. Harry Cary was the beer salesman for baseball in Chicago and the bars around Wrigley are filled with drunks all year long.

 

[madbass6]

I'm talking as a band. Make people dance? Sell beer? Entertain? I've watch many posts about making people dance. But I remeber the old days when you had to sell beer. There were so many poopy sounding bands out there but the ones that got the gigs sold beer.

Right now our drummer turns down free drinks from drunk patrons. Our guitar player turns down tequila shots. Unheard of in the old days. You don't have to drink it, but you should damn well accept it! In fact we used to encourage it by constantly holding up empty bottles or telling people that we would like to dispel the rumors that the band doesn't drink. Or holding up a bottle and yelling cheers every other song, etc.

There's the story about the bar owner who doesn't understand why sales are down. "I've got the best dance band in town, the dance floor is full all night long but my beer sales haven't gone up". Well if they are on the dance floor all night they aren't drinking. Plus their beer is getting warm so when they do get a chance to drink they blame the bar for warm beer. I could go on and on about this, but back to the original question...

Thank God Back to the original question ..
Here's your answer : all of the above!

 

[Element Zero]

I’m on musical hiatus for a few months but, over the last 30 years that I’ve been playing music, my “job” has been simple.

To play music with other people who want to play music.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Yeah, I'd rather be in a REAL band.

Probably best for all if you play in a "real" band. No one is denying you.

 

[Bassbeater]

<--Audio prostitute
<---Bass player "of the evening"
<----5 string bartender