What is your job?

[jamro217]

I do not rely on music for financial gain. I would rather die an unknown pauper than a famous sell out. How many musicians can you name who chose this path in order to be a pawn for merchandisers? There are lots of musicians who started as a pathway to meeting girls/guys. That's not the same as starting a band so the pub owner can increase his bottom line, the town can fill its coffers on DUI charges after the show, or getting free gear as a publicity gag. Those are just milder forms of prostitution IMHO. (Unless you intend to charge potential mates for sex.) What would be cooler than posthumously being a major musical influence. The longer the time delay, the more impressive the achievement. On a personal note, I was going through a box of family heirlooms and found some sheet music to a song my great grandfather wrote during WWI. It's public domain now, but I might be the logical choice to keep it alive. I plan on recording it, even though it is outdated. I guess classical music ages gracefully, whereas popular music may or may not. Who knows? Maybe ragtime will make a comeback.

 

[Robroy]

I think you are wrong. There are more good musicians now than ever. And there are some darn good players out there making good music every night.

I agree (except for the "I think you are wrong" part). I think there are lots of good musicians. But I think a flood of bad musicians has damaged the whole thing.

As one guy said, you used to be able to put up a "live music" sign and the people flocked to the place. Now, it can almost be a hindrance due to all the bad experiences people have had with bad live music.

i.e. my statement about bad musicians and your statement about good musicians are both statements I agree with. I just think they are two different subjects.

And FWIW, I think part of the problem is DUI enforcement and GTA, etc. The shine is off "live music" and people have other things to do. We'll never get the 60's and 70's back. Music has a different place in people's lives now.

 

[skwee]

In many ways, I consider myself part of the customer service staff in the pure sense: there to make people happy with their choice to come in.

 

[Robroy]

-speak for yourself.

One reason I stopped playing the bars was that none of the bands around here really wanted to be that good.

But then I watch the Brit Floyd concerts, and it's a different level. I remember an upscale bar/restaurant in Eden Prairie, MN that had a band that would have given Return to Forever a run for their money. I learned that whenever I was in that town that was the place to hear the GOOD bands.

I'll bet most of them still have day jobs, though...

 

[Robroy]

And, as I also said: I'm totaly fine with that. I respect and understand that people have different motivations for what they do. What I don't respect is this "I'm into this because of the artsy partsy important stuff that I do, and I dislike any other approach to this very important art that I'm into". I'm fine with whatever his motivation is. The same with everyone else, in a bar, in a church, in a hotel, in a concerthall. Is the thing you do important for you (and hopefully somebody else)? Fine. Keep on playing.

Yeah, I agreed with his post up to that last paragraph. We are in agreement on that.

 

[40Hz]

I'm not a violent person, but when someone try to make other peoples musical taste and interests into a question of ethics, then I pull out my gun.

That's a pretty juvenile remark. Even as a joke.

 

[Robroy]

I moved from Seattle to Central KY about 7 years ago. It allows me to hit Nashville every year or two. What I've noticed in that short time is that either I've gotten better or the bands there have gotten worse. Some of them are great, and a lot of them are good, but even there, it's surprising how much mediocre stuff there is.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

That's a pretty juvenile remark. Even as a joke.

I understand that for Americans, that's reality. For the rest of the world, it's clear that it's not to be taken literally.

 

[4001]

I am pretty sure for example Lady Gaga or Metalica doesn't see it as their job to sell beer at their concerts even if the venue they play at sells it.

Exactly. Let these moronic club owners and promoters figure out why their craphole dive reeking of bar stench isn't selling alcohol and let the band worry about providing the music. If the promoter gets a decent band, it's the club's fault if they don't sell alcohol.
So sick of the "Make sure you tip your bartender" line.... you have to make sure the "paying customers" tip bartenders.
Anything else?? How about during the drum solo, the singer grabs a mop and cleans up some drunk's puke that is stinking the place up?

 

[mikewalker]

Sad to see such a rich and complex art form as music beeing reduced to a McDonalds department.

Are you independently wealthy, heir to an enormous fortune, and never have to a work a day in your life?

Do you have a reliable PATRON who is enormously wealthy, heir to an enormous fortune, and never has to a work a day in their life?

If you said yes to either of those questions, then I congratulate you my friend - you are free to practice rich and complex art forms for the betterment of human culture.

Otherwise, "don't quit yer day job, eh!"

 

[4001]

I don't see the point why it must be alcohol?

Because some people never get out of the High School/College frat party drinking lifestyle, and intoxication helps digest all of those crappy, rubbed into the dirt songs most every cover band rubs into the dirt because that is about all the "paying customer" can handle while belching foul Pabst Blue Ribbon and eating hot wings.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I'm talking as a band. Make people dance? Sell beer? Entertain? I've watch many posts about making people dance. But I remeber the old days when you had to sell beer. There were so many poopy sounding bands out there but the ones that got the gigs sold beer.

Right now our drummer turns down free drinks from drunk patrons. Our guitar player turns down tequila shots. Unheard of in the old days. You don't have to drink it, but you should damn well accept it! In fact we used to encourage it by constantly holding up empty bottles or telling people that we would like to dispel the rumors that the band doesn't drink. Or holding up a bottle and yelling cheers every other song, etc.

There's the story about the bar owner who doesn't understand why sales are down. "I've got the best dance band in town, the dance floor is full all night long but my beer sales haven't gone up". Well if they are on the dance floor all night they aren't drinking. Plus their beer is getting warm so when they do get a chance to drink they blame the bar for warm beer. I could go on and on about this, but back to the original question...

I think you need to be able to multitask.

For my originals band after the first or second song we typically ask “so who’s drinking tonight” . Later on in the set we’ll say something along the lines of “take care of the bartenders”. So there is a little bit of promoting alcohol sales. But that’s what’s necessary around here. If your crowd doesn’t drink at all you could have an awesome band but they aren’t gonna want to book you. Either that or you’re going to encourage the venue to cut the bands pay. Seen that also. I’ve seen venues go from a situation where bands took 100% of the door change to 75-80% of the door and the rest “was used to pay the sound guy” when they were previously paid from bar sales. It was pretty common from 2002-2007 or so when our local scene was younger and Christian rock and metal bands that attracted mainly non drinkers were trendy. It’s also common at venues that have a lot of poorly attended shows wether the people who do go to the shows drink or not. All that said I personally wouldn’t play in a band with people that have a drinking problem. Been there and done that. For me if I drink it’s normally not until after our set, the main exception being someone bringinng me a drink during the show. I’m there to put on a good show not to get plastered. You can get plastered at home for hell of a lot cheaper and I feel it’s very disrespectful not only to the fans who you ask to spend their hard earned money but to your bandmates who spend their hard earned money on nice gear and take time away from their families to rehearse and play shows. Really just gotta be respectful. One thing that might even be a good idea is ordering a non alcoholic drink that gives the impression that you’re drinking when you’re really not. Talk to the bartender one on one away from fans. Have them make you drinks that appear to have alcohol but don’t. Most people that know me know that I like gray goose and red bull so when I know the bartender well I’ll literally have straight red bull in a cup with ice which creates the illusion that I’m drinking vodca Red Bull when I’m really not. I’ve seen others do the same type of thing with other drinks. If your band just wants to get plastered and see how well you play while your trashed then do that at the house. Because thats ametuer hour stuff. That said there’s nothing wrong with drinking alcohol after you play as long as you’re not getting it if hand.

Back to multitasking. We’re musicians first and we play the show to entertain the crowd and to hopefully make a new fan or two each show. But we’re a lot of other things as well. We design and sell clothing so could say we’re fashion designers, we take turns being the driver on road trips. We encourage dancing and moshing which ever is appropriate for the song of the moment. We promote our own shows and Merch. We talk to fans off stage at shows and show them respect by listening to whatever they’d like to talk about, i mean actually listening and engaged in conversation even when we don’t feel like it. In fact that’s something a lot of pros are good at. Making you feel important and appreciated , and you gotta do that stuff. Our guitarist and I are both introverts. But we suck it up and do what we need to do. And yeah we help sell alcohol. We try to do it in a safe way. Our singer and I have even given people we know a ride home after the show on occasion or if they weren’t too bad off followed them home to make sure they got home ok. I’ll even buy a beer or two for a fan that hasn’t been to a show in a while to show my appreciation for their support.

 

[brianrost]

Everybody's job is the same: doing whatever you can to make the employer successful.

So for a musician it's selling alcohol, selling food, making people dance, whatever is germane to the particular gig.

 

[Robroy]

One reason I stopped playing the bars was that none of the bands around here really wanted to be that good.

But then I watch the Brit Floyd concerts, and it's a different level. I remember an upscale bar/restaurant in Eden Prairie, MN that had a band that would have given Return to Forever a run for their money. I learned that whenever I was in that town that was the place to hear the GOOD bands.

I'll bet most of them still have day jobs, though...

Edit: The place was redstone. I've not been back there in roughly 15 years.

 

[4001]

I know that if people couldn't drink when they go to see bands, the venues would be just about empty.

Says a lot about those "paying customers" and what they think they know about musical talent.

 

[hrodbert696]

This has not been my experience. The core Redhead fan is female, divorced, 35-65. Followed closely by men in similar circumstances. They have the money and the time (kids are either gone or old enough to not need a babysitter) to go out on a Friday or Saturday night (sometimes both!) and have a few drinks and work on their flirting skills. Lots of couples, too, of course. And sometimes (to my great astonishment) we get college kids. Remember, they grew up in homes where mom & dad played Zep and Heart and Doobie Bros, etc. (Kinda scary to think that "Whole Lotta Love" was released 50 years ago, eh?) Is the band really good? Not for me to say. But we seem to have convinced a lot of people that we're worth seeing.

It helps that our BL is extremely outgoing--if she spots a group she's never seen before, she's going to take the wireless mic to their table and sing to them. At the break, she's going to go talk to them. And little by little, she's built us a solid fan base. The main thing, from a commercial perspective, is that club owners know we are a reliable draw, that we do a lot of promotion on our own (there's one guy who now refuses to book bands that don't do their own promotion), and that we do all the little stuff, like load in as quickly and unobtrusively as possible, get the crowd to cheer for the bar staff, keep the volume appropriate, etc., etc. As I often say, it ain't rocket science.

Sure, I'm not doubting this; but what I was trying to get across is that, from the venue's perspective, not every band is as strong a success as you're having with Redhead. They're looking to hire bands for, say, eight nights a month, and presumably don't want the same band playing all eight nights. Supposing they want, ideally, a six-week rotation between the same band coming back; that's 12 bands they need in the rotation. Will they ALL be as good for business as Redhead is? What if they have, maybe, 10 bands in their market that are that good; the other two slots they're trying out new and uncertain acts; and then maybe one of the 10 good ones breaks up, and a couple of months later another... I can see how, from the venue's perspective, it's a difficult and uncertain area of business. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

It is a LOAD OF CRAP that selling alcohol is the key to getting more gigs.
The club owner and promoters should be responsible for advertising and making the establishment worth going to and figure out how to sell their own rotten beer.
The band's job is to play the songs.
This whole thing of selling beer and playing CRAP pop tunes being the ONLY way a band gets gigs UNLESS your band is an established pro act, is complete HORSEPUCKY.
Is your band that horrible that you have to intoxicate the "paying customers" to enjoy the music and let them risk a DUI?
They aren't there just for your band... your band is background music. Great. No thanks.
I HATE DRUNKS, the local entertainment mafia bosses and sellouts.

Wow. There are many things in life that should be, but aren't. Clearly, the bar scene is not your thing. Different strokes...

 

[Sixgunn]

Says a lot about those "paying customers" and what they think they know about musical talent.

I guess. I think it really says more about people in general. Alcohol is so ingrained in our culture that people don't think they can have fun without it.

 

[4001]

Clearly, the bar scene is not your thing.

Is it that obvious?

 

[sqlb3rn]

My only "job" is to express my art through music. If people want to come listen/watch, and get drunk, that's up to them.