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What "Keep It Simple" Really Means

#21
You know you're onto something when you can make the complex sound simple (insert Jamerson here).
yes, for 97.3% of band situations it is good to play the groove or the bottom, but it is also nice to step out of there when the time is right.
Biggest difference between professionals and amateur is knowing WHEN to get after it and when to play it simple.
Having the ability to go wild and choosing not to is the place where you want to be.
 
#22
DWBass said:
It's funny how many bassists come about this revelation. I have never had this issue!
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Haha, I never did either. I suspect it might be because I started out playing in churches so I got used to seeing a chart for a song with one or two vocal lines written plus guitar chords, getting a new song or two most weeks, getting to run through those once or twice and then playing them in front of several hundred people.

Not that I'm some ascetic unselfish saint of the bass. I love attention and attention loves me. I just have better ways of getting it.
 
#24
CrewsControl said:
So, when do I get to the phase where I'm whipping out too many notes?
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When your bandmates start complaining and when you stop getting positive feedback about your playing. Use your ears! Also, don't be selfish and use the old "I gotta be creative 'cause I hate boring basslines" line!

To all....no one is saying stand in the background and play root notes (unless the song calls for it). But don't add more than the song needs! More times than not, I hear guys playing notes that, harmonically and theoretically, don't even belong!
 
#28
Others have already said it so I won't belabor the point too much: yes, we all go through that. One day, you come to the realization that you have to do what is right for the song. We spend a lot of time learning how to play like Geddy, John Paul Jones or John Entwistle, then try to encorporate that type of playing into songs where it really doesn't fit and wonder why no one in the band likes it. We are dismayed that they are not duly impressed with our prowess and are just trying to keep us down...especially the guitar player(s).

But then, we actually listen to some of our favorite players and learn that they don't play all that wild stuff in every song and know that holding the groove, with some tasty fills thrown in judiciously here and there, may all be that the song really needs. Yeah, I've received the talk as well. ;)

Congrats on your epiphany!
 
#29
I think that we all go through this. I started playing in the 60's when everything was so busy - I have to hold back most of the time, now that I am playing very simple classic rock. A big help was recording myself when practicing and during shows. What sounded so cool while playing was way too busy when I listened back.

The cool riffs only sound good ONCE in a song as a highlight, not in every verse.
 
#30
VanillaThundah said:
Victor Wooten's philosophy on this, in his Groove Workshop dvd, is that music is a conversation. He had an issue with a talented drummer he was working with during a gig who kept playing over everyone. Paraphrased, he was basically saying that if one person is dominating the talking all the time, then it ceases to be an conversation. I like this example because it doesn't discriminate by instrument. There's plenty of people who want to stick the bassist in the box so they can get their 10 solos in every song...the same rule applies to them, that is not a conversation at all.
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+1

For me it's not about playing simple (or complex) it's about everyone having their space and respecting other people's space. It's easy to play the root and 5th and stay out of the way. It's also easy to play a million notes without think about how they all fit in to the overall sound. It's a lot harder to put together a group of people that all respect each other's musical contributions and are committed to working together.
 
#33
jive1 said:
If you can't funk it with 1 note, you probably won't be able to do it with 10. If you can't drive a Rock tune with 3 notes, you probably won't be able to with 30.

Sometimes, as musicians we get so focused on the melodic and harmonic complexity of music, we forget how much you can do with just the rhythm. Even if all you are doing is playing the root note, by varying it rhythmically you can do so many different tempos and feels from it. Play it in straight eighths, it's Rock. Do it faster, and you get Metal and Punk. Do it even faster, and you get Grindcore. Syncopate it, and you have funk. Swing it a little and you have Blues. Play it in 3and you have a Waltz. Play it with a 2 feel, and it's Country. Play it in 13/5 and it's Math Rock. Play it in quarters, and it's House or Industrial. All this from one note and different rhythms.

Now add in other instruments, and you can let them add to your simplicity to create cool things harmonically. You can play a single note or run, but depending on the chords being played by the other instruments they can add tension, movement, release, etc. even though you are playing the same thing.

There's lots of cool complexities to music that you can discover by just playing simpler.
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Well said!!! Best advice ever given on TB. Period.


DiabolusInMusic said:
....Poor players have ten times as many fills, especially drummers...

It's all about the pocket
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So very true!!


VanillaThundah said:
Victor Wooten's philosophy on this, in his Groove Workshop dvd, is that music is a conversation. He had an issue with a talented drummer he was working with during a gig who kept playing over everyone. Paraphrased, he was basically saying that if one person is dominating the talking all the time, then it ceases to be an conversation. I like this example because it doesn't discriminate by instrument. There's plenty of people who want to stick the bassist in the box so they can get their 10 solos in every song...the same rule applies to them, that is not a conversation at all.
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I like this analogy. Makes perfect sense. Very good analogy for the OP.
 
#34
jive1 said:
If you can't funk it with 1 note, you probably won't be able to do it with 10. If you can't drive a Rock tune with 3 notes, you probably won't be able to with 30.

Sometimes, as musicians we get so focused on the melodic and harmonic complexity of music, we forget how much you can do with just the rhythm. Even if all you are doing is playing the root note, by varying it rhythmically you can do so many different tempos and feels from it. Play it in straight eighths, it's Rock. Do it faster, and you get Metal and Punk. Do it even faster, and you get Grindcore. Syncopate it, and you have funk. Swing it a little and you have Blues. Play it in 3and you have a Waltz. Play it with a 2 feel, and it's Country. Play it in 13/5 and it's Math Rock. Play it in quarters, and it's House or Industrial. All this from one note and different rhythms.

Now add in other instruments, and you can let them add to your simplicity to create cool things harmonically. You can play a single note or run, but depending on the chords being played by the other instruments they can add tension, movement, release, etc. even though you are playing the same thing.

There's lots of cool complexities to music that you can discover by just playing simpler.
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g4string said:
Well said!!! Best advice ever given on TB. Period.
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I have to agree. That was very well put! :bassist:
 
#35
Occasionally I wonder if I have the opposite problem. I learned to play by ear, never had music lessons, can't read and to figure out a scale I have to stop..think...carry the 2... oh yeah that's how a a minor blues scale goes...

All I really have is good taste, a decent sense of rhythm and a list of riffs cribbed from the popular music of the last thirty years.

Still, when called upon to write a bass line I often get pretty sparse and I wonder if my bandmates are scratching their heads and wondering where the busy, blistering riffs are. Not that they've said so.

Here's a clip as an example.

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#36
This is something we all need to come back to from time to time.. as bass players, musicians and the whole band mentality as well. Sometimes we get excited and force things that aren't organic in the intensity of the moment. If we really take a listen to the great music we love, in most cases it breathes and improvisation develops naturally... It's not a gazillion notes crammed into the available space.. Of course this applies both individually and as a band.. IME and all that..

PS.. every musician I have ever met has been guilty of this at some time and if they are honest with themselves, catch themselves and reel back from time to time..
 
#37
Bassamatic said:
......... A big help was recording myself when practicing and during shows. What sounded so cool while playing was way too busy when I listened back.

The cool riffs only sound good ONCE in a song as a highlight, not in every verse.
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BIG +1
Try it and you'll remember it forever.
The tape (or more likely digital recorder) doesn't lie.

Playing more sparsely opens up room for really using all the nuances available.
You can then approach more notes differently regarding tone and feel rather than just pounding away all the time.
 
#38
My guitarist once asked me, "Did you ever hear the story about the working bassist?" I told him I hadn't, and told me about a conversation between a musician and a bassist.

Musician: So, I hear you play bass. Are you any good?

Bassist: Doodlelydoodlelyweedleweedleruckachuckachucka!

Musician: Sounds great! Want to play on my session?

Bassist: Dum, dum dum. Dum, dum dum. Dum, dum dum. Dum, da dum dum.

Musician: Here's your check!

Moral of the story: No matter how massive your chops, 90% of the time, the best thing for the song is to hold down the groove and support everyone else.
 
#39
simpler frees you to articulate more meaning into the notes you play, learned this on DB since you can't play as fast or jump around on the neck like BG (unless you're Scott LaFaro or Gary Peacock). And lo and behold, that maps 100% to BG fretted or fretless. Tony Levin is a great example since he plays DB, EUB, and Stick on top of fretted and fretless BG.

Edit: yes, there's a cycle where you overstep and then realize one sounds better cutting back. Been playing bass almost 40 years and I'm in yet another "pruning" phase, listening to and playing along w/Klaus Voorman, Carl Radle, Paul McCartney, Bernie Flowers, and related players who kept it melodic, but "just the facts, ma'am". Sounded great doing it, and made the songs bloom because of that approach :cool:
 
#40
hang on just a second buddy, chances are if you've only been playing a year and you think your playing is as hot as you describe you might get a few surprises if you could step back and hear it from the audience's ear
 

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