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What makes an expensive bass expensive?

#81
I've owned Spectors, Fenders, MM, Jackson, Roscoe, MTD, Warwick...etc. I've owned a lot of basses. MTD and Roscoe are two brands that are absolutely worth every dime. I had to wait a long time, and sell lots of stuff to be able to get one of these basses. Now I own a 5 string Roscoe SKB and an MTD 435. Nothing comes close in tone, especially compared to the Roscoe.


That being said, I love, love, love MM. I always will. There are just certain differences (how fast the neck plays, responsiveness of the pickups, weight, look)'that make the higher end basses worth it.

It's like owning a nice tube amp. Sure I could get a Peavey but why would I if there's a beautiful Mesa available? ;)
 
#82
1958Bassman said:
An inexperienced player may realize that a custom instrument is better, but not why. Small changes in neck radius and fretboard/fingerboard dimensions won't be felt, balance problems won't matter on most instruments because they haven't worn a bass that hangs perfectly and sound/control configuration and characteristics won't matter much, either. Unless they have something to compare what they have with something that's outstanding, they won't know what's possible and why they don't have "something special", aside from saying "It was only $300- it's not great, but it works".
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Excellent points.

It took me many years to realize what specs are most comfortable to me. Things like string spacing, neck scale, neck profile, maximum weight, type of PU and electronics, types of neck and body woods, etc. are extremely important to me and many (possibly any) variations would be deal breakers for me on a bass at any price. As an example, I am not buying/gigging a passive, 36" scale, 16.5mm spaced, 12lb with a U (baseball bat) profile neck for any price.

I am not the most technical person in the world when it comes to the minute details of bass specs, but after 25+ years of playing, I know what I like. I guess my point is that a bassist should not even consider buying/special a custom bass until he/she is positive about what spec fits the bill best. My ultimate custom bass may not sound/look/play good to others.
 
#83
I think some make assumptions before choosing an instrument, too. I have big hands, but not short, fat fingers. If I were to think about what kind of neck would be best for me, I would think a larger, flatter board and a fat neck would be good, with wide string spacing. Since I don't have fat fingers, close spacing isn't a problem, I haven't played a lot of basses, but I bought an SD Curlee in the late '80s, with a fairly thin neck that's almost 2" across, at the nut. Having a 32" scale and a custom DiMarzio humbucker (made for the company in the mid-late '70s), the spacing at the bridge is 16.5mm, not 17.5mm and that could be a problem for someone with "sausage fingers". Now that it has a new neck and is up and running again, I'm finding that it's more comfortable to play than when the OEM neck was on it, which I attribute to the added thickness and depth of the neck. In contrast, my other bass is an Ibanez fretless 4 string, which has a thin neck that's a lot more narrow at the nut, which I used to think wouldn't work with my hands. It does, and I was wrong. The string spacing is similar to what's on other long scale basses and I find it comfortable, to play.

To me, since I haven't played a lot of different basses in recent years, this tells me several things- I can adapt to the instrument to a degree without feeling that it's not "right" for me, I don't play extremely fast and since I don't expect to need a custom instrument, I probably won't try one with great interest. However, hand fatigue can be a cause for looking at other instruments because of the long-term damage that can occur if a badly set up bass is played for too long. My hand was very sore after playing the Curlee when the neck was messed up and that's why I stopped playing it. I had also played a Yamaha with a bad truss rod and ended up with tendonitis in my left thumb after a couple of weeks, which made me glad to stop using it.
 
#84
TinyE said:
I've always had somewhat cheap basses. Different types of Fenders and Peaveys. I've played a stingray, but never any high dollar stuff.

I see basses go for upwards of $6k on this site. I can't imagine its a wood that isn't used by anyone else, and nowadays I'm going to guess that any electronics can be cloned close enough to sound similar. Finishes are pretty easy with veneers. So what drives up the cost?

I can imagine an argument might be that hand made will always be better quality, but that isn't always true. I'm just curious. Being a dad, I have this bad habit of putting my extra dough aside for the kid, so I can pretty confidently say I'll never get to play one.

I'm not trying to start any brand war, I'm sincerely wondering what I'm missing. What do they feel like? Play like? Sound like? How do you test drive one of these boutiques before you buy? I only see the usual stuff at our music stores. The closest I can get, I know a guy with a 6 string Warwick thumb. But even that is a little lower brow than some of the nice looking basses I've seen on here.
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My GMR (Probably the most expensive bass I will own , lucked into it at fire sale price) is hand made, exotic woods , fit and finish are superb, attention to detail is great , took many hours to finish i would imagine. Electronics are top notch and pickups are best I have ever played through. This all adds up to big $ in the end , and the MFG has to make a profit to keep the lights and heat on , pay rent on the building, and craftsmen do not work for free, buy materials and supplies to make a superb instrument. American made stuff also comes down to higher wages Paid to its workers as well , I am sure my bass makers in Poland didn't get near the wages that the American craftsmen do , but still had to make a decent wage for their skills
 
#85
jwr said:
Now I own a 5 string Roscoe SKB and an MTD 435. Nothing comes close in tone, especially compared to the Roscoe.

That being said, I love, love, love MM. I always will.
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I will probably never play a bass other than Roscoe. The basses are that good (and I've tried a lot of basses) and the people are that amazing.

Good thing Roscoe offers a MM pickup option ;-)
 
#86
TinyE said:
I've always had somewhat cheap basses. Different types of Fenders and Peaveys. I've played a stingray, but never any high dollar stuff.

I see basses go for upwards of $6k on this site. I can't imagine its a wood that isn't used by anyone else, and nowadays I'm going to guess that any electronics can be cloned close enough to sound similar. Finishes are pretty easy with veneers. So what drives up the cost?

I can imagine an argument might be that hand made will always be better quality, but that isn't always true. I'm just curious. Being a dad, I have this bad habit of putting my extra dough aside for the kid, so I can pretty confidently say I'll never get to play one.

I'm not trying to start any brand war, I'm sincerely wondering what I'm missing. What do they feel like? Play like? Sound like? How do you test drive one of these boutiques before you buy? I only see the usual stuff at our music stores. The closest I can get, I know a guy with a 6 string Warwick thumb. But even that is a little lower brow than some of the nice looking basses I've seen on here.
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Have you ever put a bass together? Parts are $400-600. the rest is labor & ovehead & markup
 
#89
chuck norriss said:
Have you ever put a bass together? Parts are $400-600. the rest is labor & ovehead & markup
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Can be $400-$600, but can be more. Depends on the level of quality. If they're imported, they're a lot less. Wood, OTOH, can be very expensive and the amount used for the instrument doesn't determine the cost for the board. Also, sometimes, defects and damage from decay, insects and other factors can't be seen until the piece has been cut. Other times, the wood is too unstable to be used, may fracture during drying, may be stained or otherwise unsuitable for the instrument as designed. Exotic woods can be purchased in small quantities, but it's not economical to buy this way. A body may have 6 board feet of wood as a blank, and at $15-$30/bd-ft, it's one of the more expensive parts.

Ever tried to make a neck? Any time a major amount of wood is removed, it must be stabilized and dried, so it can acclimate, before working it again. There's a lot of time with parts sitting idle during a build and not much can be done about it.
 
#90
GYang said:
What makes bass expensive?

Fodera logo in some cases.
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Super intelligent post with great insight. Thanks for posting.

So Foderas are overpriced compared to all other boutique brands in your expert and experienced opinion?

Cool. I guess I should go cancel my 2 current Fodera builds and buy something with a less expensive logo. A couple of Ken Smiths, maybe? I will likely get better Customer Service from Smith from what I hear too.
 
#91
Baird6869 said:
Super intelligent post with great insight. Thanks for posting.

So Foderas are overpriced compared to all other boutique brands in your expert and experienced opinion?

Cool. I guess I should go cancel my 2 current Fodera builds and buy something with a less expensive logo. A couple of Ken Smiths, maybe? I will likely get better Customer Service from Smith from what I hear too.
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Of course I didn't have in view yours two particular basses on order.
I still think the logo and service is overpriced by most of other Foderas or better say any Fodera over 3,5K+ price range.
Believe or not, I can afford to spend several grands more without violating my budget integrity, but simply don't see the point.
Bottom line - Enjoy whatever bass you order at any price point :bassist:
 
#93
1958Bassman said:
Can be $400-$600, but can be more. Depends on the level of quality. If they're imported, they're a lot less. Wood, OTOH, can be very expensive and the amount used for the instrument doesn't determine the cost for the board. Also, sometimes, defects and damage from decay, insects and other factors can't be seen until the piece has been cut. Other times, the wood is too unstable to be used, may fracture during drying, may be stained or otherwise unsuitable for the instrument as designed. Exotic woods can be purchased in small quantities, but it's not economical to buy this way. A body may have 6 board feet of wood as a blank, and at $15-$30/bd-ft, it's one of the more expensive parts.

Ever tried to make a neck? Any time a major amount of wood is removed, it must be stabilized and dried, so it can acclimate, before working it again. There's a lot of time with parts sitting idle during a build and not much can be done about it.
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I've spoken with Mike Tobias (a luthier who is known for his attention to detail when it comes to wood selection) about the wood he uses and was surprised to learn how much of the wood he gets ends up being unusable.
 
#95
What makes an expensive bass expensive??

It's all about "mojo". You know, the scrapes and dents and dings and paint cracks.

I'm sure you've seen those basses for sale in the classifieds where the seller calls all of the damage and misuse and lack of care "mojo". Right?

And I'm sure you've seen those new basses that are distressed or road worn from the factory, right?

So, what this all means is, the way to jack up the price on a bass is, tie a 50-foot rope to the neck near the headstock, tie the other end of the rope to the rear bumper of your vehicle, and drive around town taking corners as fast as you can. Lab tests have demonstrated that one can assume $1000 of added "mojo" per hour of driving, so do the math and calculate how many hours of mojo you want added. Simple!
 
#96
SactoBass said:
What makes an expensive bass expensive??

It's all about "mojo". You know, the scrapes and dents and dings and paint cracks.

I'm sure you've seen those basses for sale in the classifieds where the seller calls all of the damage and misuse and lack of care "mojo". Right?

And I'm sure you've seen those new basses that are distressed or road worn from the factory, right?

So, what this all means is, the way to jack up the price on a bass is, tie a 50-foot rope to the neck near the headstock, tie the other end of the rope to the rear bumper of your vehicle, and drive around town taking corners as fast as you can. Lab tests have demonstrated that one can assume $1000 of added "mojo" per hour of driving, so do the math and calculate how many hours of mojo you want added. Simple!
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True dat.

The day Fodera, Roscoe, MTD, Sadowsky, Ken Lawrence and other top builders start offering "relic" or "Roadworn" basses, I am taking up keyboards.:p
 
#97
SactoBass said:
What makes an expensive bass expensive??

It's all about "mojo". You know, the scrapes and dents and dings and paint cracks...
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Well the old saying "Mojo lies in the eyes of the beholder" applies here.

Ive noticed (generally) younger bass players seem to drawn to the relic'ed basses. Now, Im not saying that just because someone paid $3k for a heavily relic'ed P bass, he's a noob.

Im just saying most of the older/experienced bass players ive met have basses well cared for. Even tho it (the bass) may be old.

The only bass players I know personally (two) who have relic'ed basses are under 24 y.o..

I know Im gonna get flamed for making this observation.

Bring it. :D
 
#100
skychief said:
Well the old saying "Mojo lies in the eyes of the beholder" applies here.

Ive noticed (generally) younger bass players seem to drawn to the relic'ed basses. Now, Im not saying that just because someone paid $3k for a heavily relic'ed P bass, he's a noob.

Im just saying most of the older/experienced bass players ive met have basses well cared for. Even tho it (the bass) may be old.

The only bass players I know personally (two) who have relic'ed basses are under 24 y.o..

I know Im gonna get flamed for making this observation.

Bring it. :D
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+1

And I completely agree......"old" (but well taken care of) is, in my mind, totally different than a banged up, wrecklessly used, thrashed, or factory road worn instrument. IMO, the former has the real mojo and therefore adds value; the latter...........................doesn't.
 

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