If you don't already know what the differences in cheap vs. expensive basses are and can't tell yet what basses feel/sound the best to you regardless of the price tag, then save your money. You are not ready for the expensive bass.
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What makes an expensive bass expensive?
- Thread starter TinyE
- Start date
Im not trying to sound snobbish, but I don't own a bass that cost less than $4500. I have 3 Ken Smith basses, and a Fodera and MTD on order. Before I bought my first "boutique" bass, I owned an Ibanez SR405, a Carlo Robelli, and a cheap Ibanez starter bass. I played those basses in and out. I don't own them anymore, because once I bought my Smith, they werent relevant to me anymore. Everything about a Smith bass is better than anything I've ever previously owned in every category.
At the same time, I just live a certain quality life. I only wear custom tailored suits, I will not buy off the rack. Because the detail in a custom suit is just simply better in every category. The suit is custom fitted to my body, no room for error. The same with my basses, they are custom tailored to my liking (even though Smith has his own way of doing things), for the most part, they are built around the sound which I want.
Am I rich? Not my far, God has truly blessed me to have a fortunate lifestyle. I save, and I budget very well.
The price my Fodera cost is insane, till this day, I still can't believe I am paying what I am paying for. Part of me is a thrill seeker. I get a certain thrill when I buy an expensive bass, or anything expensive. Not only do I have a Fodera on order, at the same time, I have a MTD on order. So I am paying for 2 basses at 1 time.
I will say this, I can have someone bring me any mass production bass, and I will bring one of my boutique basses, and I can guarantee that my boutique bass will blow it out of the water in EVERY possible category. If money wasn't an issue, i bet a lot more people would have boutique basses over mass productions. If we were all millionaires, I guarantee there would be a lot more Rolls Royces on the road, and a lot less Hondas.
But to sum everything up, a wise person said "You get what You paid for."
At the same time, I just live a certain quality life. I only wear custom tailored suits, I will not buy off the rack. Because the detail in a custom suit is just simply better in every category. The suit is custom fitted to my body, no room for error. The same with my basses, they are custom tailored to my liking (even though Smith has his own way of doing things), for the most part, they are built around the sound which I want.
Am I rich? Not my far, God has truly blessed me to have a fortunate lifestyle. I save, and I budget very well.
The price my Fodera cost is insane, till this day, I still can't believe I am paying what I am paying for. Part of me is a thrill seeker. I get a certain thrill when I buy an expensive bass, or anything expensive. Not only do I have a Fodera on order, at the same time, I have a MTD on order. So I am paying for 2 basses at 1 time.
I will say this, I can have someone bring me any mass production bass, and I will bring one of my boutique basses, and I can guarantee that my boutique bass will blow it out of the water in EVERY possible category. If money wasn't an issue, i bet a lot more people would have boutique basses over mass productions. If we were all millionaires, I guarantee there would be a lot more Rolls Royces on the road, and a lot less Hondas.
But to sum everything up, a wise person said "You get what You paid for."
The bass guitar is a very simple instrument, and most of what makes one great to play is in the way it is set up. Good parts help too, but the appearance (fancy woods, carving, finish) is superfluous, as long as the bass is comfortable. The value of custom work (to me) is highest if the desire is for a bass with unusual specs: width, length, and shape of neck, spacing, body size, etc. If you spend hours per day with an instrument, it might as well fit you as perfectly as possible. However, a lot of custom fitting can be achieved with cutting a nut, using a particular bridge, etc.
Obviously besides the cynical "name on the headstock" and "what the market will bear" aspect of the price, which of course are factors, there are a couple things.
The most readily apparent is wood used. Nicer wood costs more money.
Then there's hardware. Higher quality hardware manufactured to tighter quality control specs and so forth costs more.
Once those are accounted for, you still have to factor in time spent per instrument. A custom builder can't crank out instruments as fast as big factory, and, as we all know, time is money. The longer spent on an individual instrument, generally the more it will cost.
There are other ways economies of scale contribute as well. Materials often cost less, proportionally, the larger the batch being ordered is, and so on and so forth.
The most readily apparent is wood used. Nicer wood costs more money.
Then there's hardware. Higher quality hardware manufactured to tighter quality control specs and so forth costs more.
Once those are accounted for, you still have to factor in time spent per instrument. A custom builder can't crank out instruments as fast as big factory, and, as we all know, time is money. The longer spent on an individual instrument, generally the more it will cost.
There are other ways economies of scale contribute as well. Materials often cost less, proportionally, the larger the batch being ordered is, and so on and so forth.
I feel there is a difference between the value of something and the cost of something. I play a 27 year-old Yamaha that I probably spent $400 on brand-new. I have bonded with it and can't imagine playing anything else, even though I own several other basses. It's sound is my sound and I feel it is an extension of my soul. It's cost would be a few hundred dollars today, but it's value is in the thousands...if not priceless.
My dad was the former principal cellist of the Utah Symphony and I thought this conversation could use some perspective:
Professional level cello strings? $100/ea
Professional level bow? $3-10k
Professional level cello? $30-200k
"Boutique" instrument? Yo-yo ma has a cello valued at $2.5 million
When I became an electric bass player I felt I was in heaven because I could get a great sounding bass for $1k. I think there are several reasons for this. First, the sound from an electric bass does not have the same level of connection to the wood and shaping of the instrument that purely acoustic instruments have. Therefore mass manufacturing techniques can be applied to produce a very good instrument. Second, there is enough demand to make large scale manufacturing viable.
To me, this creates an 'oddity' in the perception of electric bass players. Our first instrument is dirt cheap and sounds so-so. We then move up to a 'pro' instrument in the $1k range and that makes sense to our ears. It then seems like there is a huge leap into the $5-10k boutique range of instruments. In acoustic instruments, this departure from mass manufacturing into the world of hand crafted instruments is accompanied with a huge change in sound. My dad gave me a cello lesson on his $40k instrument; he then let me play his $80k instrument. I'd been "playing" cello for an hour - but the sound was so much richer on the more expensive instrument I can understand why it was twice the price. We don't get that experience on electric bass guitar because our $1k instrument is very good.
Thus does a $10k bass sound better? Probably. It the sound worth an extra $9k? That depends on the musician.
-Scott
Professional level cello strings? $100/ea
Professional level bow? $3-10k
Professional level cello? $30-200k
"Boutique" instrument? Yo-yo ma has a cello valued at $2.5 million
When I became an electric bass player I felt I was in heaven because I could get a great sounding bass for $1k. I think there are several reasons for this. First, the sound from an electric bass does not have the same level of connection to the wood and shaping of the instrument that purely acoustic instruments have. Therefore mass manufacturing techniques can be applied to produce a very good instrument. Second, there is enough demand to make large scale manufacturing viable.
To me, this creates an 'oddity' in the perception of electric bass players. Our first instrument is dirt cheap and sounds so-so. We then move up to a 'pro' instrument in the $1k range and that makes sense to our ears. It then seems like there is a huge leap into the $5-10k boutique range of instruments. In acoustic instruments, this departure from mass manufacturing into the world of hand crafted instruments is accompanied with a huge change in sound. My dad gave me a cello lesson on his $40k instrument; he then let me play his $80k instrument. I'd been "playing" cello for an hour - but the sound was so much richer on the more expensive instrument I can understand why it was twice the price. We don't get that experience on electric bass guitar because our $1k instrument is very good.
Thus does a $10k bass sound better? Probably. It the sound worth an extra $9k? That depends on the musician.
-Scott
Right now I am playing a Fodera mainly but also gig a Squier on rare occasions.
Is the Fodera better? You bet your @$$. It is better in every way... Tone, playability, construction, look, customer service from the manufacturer, etc.
Is it worth 20x what the Squier is or sound 20x better? Likely not to many bassists. But I would guess 99% of bassists would agree that the Fodera is by far a better bass.
Anyone that thinks that a bass priced over $1000 (or $2000) is stupid should go visit MTD, Roscoe, Fodera, etc. The amount of work that goes into these basses is amazing. The way they treat customers and their staff is amazing.
I still love my Fenders, but to me a boutique can be worth the $$$ if you can afford it... You get EXACTLY what you want (pick the woods, spec the neck radius, string spacing, electronics, body shape, etc.) and will likely get a bass that will stay with you for years, if not your entire career. I like not needing to bother buying and selling another bunch of basses to find the one. After almost 100 basses owned in the last 6-7 years, that is worth lots of $$$ alone.
To each their own though.... One of my good buddies has played the same Squier bass and Peavey amp for 30 years (and he gigs quite a bit), as an example.
YMMV
Is the Fodera better? You bet your @$$. It is better in every way... Tone, playability, construction, look, customer service from the manufacturer, etc.
Is it worth 20x what the Squier is or sound 20x better? Likely not to many bassists. But I would guess 99% of bassists would agree that the Fodera is by far a better bass.
Anyone that thinks that a bass priced over $1000 (or $2000) is stupid should go visit MTD, Roscoe, Fodera, etc. The amount of work that goes into these basses is amazing. The way they treat customers and their staff is amazing.
I still love my Fenders, but to me a boutique can be worth the $$$ if you can afford it... You get EXACTLY what you want (pick the woods, spec the neck radius, string spacing, electronics, body shape, etc.) and will likely get a bass that will stay with you for years, if not your entire career. I like not needing to bother buying and selling another bunch of basses to find the one. After almost 100 basses owned in the last 6-7 years, that is worth lots of $$$ alone.
To each their own though.... One of my good buddies has played the same Squier bass and Peavey amp for 30 years (and he gigs quite a bit), as an example.
YMMV
An inexperienced player may realize that a custom instrument is better, but not why. Small changes in neck radius and fretboard/fingerboard dimensions won't be felt, balance problems won't matter on most instruments because they haven't worn a bass that hangs perfectly and sound/control configuration and characteristics won't matter much, either. Unless they have something to compare what they have with something that's outstanding, they won't know what's possible and why they don't have "something special", aside from saying "It was only $300- it's not great, but it works".
All of these are why I wouldn't buy an instrument without playing it, regardless of price. While some inexpensive basses are very playable and sound very good, they aren't what a well-designed custom bass is, in any way. Anyone can use nice wood, but how it's shaped matters to comfort and balance, how it fits together matters WRT the way vibrations are transmitted/shared and more care is used when selecting the electronics, so the frequencies affected are what's needed, not selected using the SWAG method.
All of these are why I wouldn't buy an instrument without playing it, regardless of price. While some inexpensive basses are very playable and sound very good, they aren't what a well-designed custom bass is, in any way. Anyone can use nice wood, but how it's shaped matters to comfort and balance, how it fits together matters WRT the way vibrations are transmitted/shared and more care is used when selecting the electronics, so the frequencies affected are what's needed, not selected using the SWAG method.
supply and demand. nothing is worth anything unless you say it is worth something. theres people who wouldnt even spend $1 on a bass because they dont want one. its not worth anything to them.
its about knowing what your customer wants and knowing how much you can get out of them. brands like modulus for example, i want one really bad. so id be more willing to spend over 4 grand on one than somebody whos totally into fender. and modulus knows this.
its about knowing what your customer wants and knowing how much you can get out of them. brands like modulus for example, i want one really bad. so id be more willing to spend over 4 grand on one than somebody whos totally into fender. and modulus knows this.
In my experience (which has formed my opinion) we need to look at both sides of the equation. What are the factors that cause a manufacturer to charge a lot for their products and what are the factors that make a seller willing to pay a lot for the manufacturer's product? They are not necessarily the same things.
FACTORS DRIVING PRICE .....cfsporn says it best....
FACTORS DRIVING BUYERS WILLINGNESS TO PAY THE PRICE.....this runs all over the map...
No sir, you did not stray...you expanded.
Kinda lines up with the unique body style that I mentioned earlier, but provides better detail. Personally, I'm an unapologetic Alembic pimp. They are, in my opinion the epitome of custom. And their prices reflect that. I also really like what I see and have played from Fodera, Ritter, Jerzy Drozd, Ken Smith, and of course Roscoe.
And this is what brings it all together...if the things on the manufacturer's "here's why it costs so much" list add enough value to the buyer and satisfy the things on the "why would I ever pay this much?" list, then you create demand on a high dollar level.
This, too. There are, unfortunately, folks who see pictures of boutique products on the interwebs or see their bass hero play them on YouTube and they spend a ton of money on something that they don't totally understand and are THOROUGHLY disappointed. I think that is how we get some of the "my SX blows away my Sadowsky" threads. OK. For you, maybe. Wanna trade?
At the end of the day, each bassist must decide what is worth it to THEMSELVES. I can hear the difference in tone quality between my Alembics and my Music Man basses (xlnt in their own right). Can my audience? Doubt it. So why spend the extra bucks when my MMs do the job just fine? Well, that brings us back to the unmeasurable intangibles. I love my MM basses. I love my 'bics just that much more. That's all that needs to matter.
Peace,
James
FACTORS DRIVING PRICE .....cfsporn says it best....
FACTORS DRIVING BUYERS WILLINGNESS TO PAY THE PRICE.....this runs all over the map...
- Has the feature(s) that the buyer REALLY wants. Moreso than other less pricey basses. Could be graphite neck…ebony fingerboard.....custom inlays.....could be a particular preamp or pickup…..could be a unique body style or shape
- Could be the intangible, unmeasurable, "it just feels right". Experienced this with my Roscoe fretless. The combination of materials is not something I couldn't have gotten somewhere else. But the way Roscoe put them together just delivers that "ahhhh….this is nice" feeling that makes you wanna play it.
- It could be that it delivers unique tone. My two Alembics deliver tones that I cannot get out of any other basses I've played with. AND they can get tones very similar to other recorded tones (for those rare occasions where I want to cover a song in detail, including original tone and feel). And, to the surprise and doubt of many, even though they are both Alembics, they sound fundamentally different from each other.
- Customization. Sometimes people just want something different from what you see everyday. BassHappy says it best…..
No sir, you did not stray...you expanded.
Kinda lines up with the unique body style that I mentioned earlier, but provides better detail. Personally, I'm an unapologetic Alembic pimp. They are, in my opinion the epitome of custom. And their prices reflect that. I also really like what I see and have played from Fodera, Ritter, Jerzy Drozd, Ken Smith, and of course Roscoe.
And this is what brings it all together...if the things on the manufacturer's "here's why it costs so much" list add enough value to the buyer and satisfy the things on the "why would I ever pay this much?" list, then you create demand on a high dollar level.
I think internet hype is also responsible for gear/bass price hikes
This, too. There are, unfortunately, folks who see pictures of boutique products on the interwebs or see their bass hero play them on YouTube and they spend a ton of money on something that they don't totally understand and are THOROUGHLY disappointed. I think that is how we get some of the "my SX blows away my Sadowsky" threads. OK. For you, maybe. Wanna trade?
At the end of the day, each bassist must decide what is worth it to THEMSELVES. I can hear the difference in tone quality between my Alembics and my Music Man basses (xlnt in their own right). Can my audience? Doubt it. So why spend the extra bucks when my MMs do the job just fine? Well, that brings us back to the unmeasurable intangibles. I love my MM basses. I love my 'bics just that much more. That's all that needs to matter.
Peace,
James
I had a gig for local politicians. I really didn't expect that someone from the audience would even notice the bass guitar in the band but for my biggest surprise a few people came to me after the show and asked how did I get that amazing bass sound out from my instrument. One lady even said that she almost got orgasm from the lows. I played my Alembic Orion that night through the Acoustic Image/Schroeder rig.
I guess even "expensive" is a matter of opinion. To me even a $300 bass is an expensive experience if it proves to be a pos. far below what's expected.
So what does "expensive" mean? Is it beyond a certain price point? And in that case, what's that price point?
So what does "expensive" mean? Is it beyond a certain price point? And in that case, what's that price point?
Means2nEnd
Supporting Member
I cant add anything to subject regarding what you wind up with in your hand when you buy an expensive bass as far as attention to detail, quality of the components, resale value etc
I currently own 9 basses in all different configurations as far as fretless, fretted, different electronics, woods and other factors that make them all sound different and give me something different to bring to the table with different projects I have been in. I have been lucky enough and work hard enough to own nice German Warwicks, Mike Lull, Joe Zon, FBass, USA Lakland, Spector all pretty much north of $2,500 to $4,500. I have gigged and recorded with almost all of them and I have come to realize through experience what makes them valuable to me. I have owned the Fenders, MusicMan basses as well and sold them off not because they were cheaper but they didnt give me something I was looking for in what Im doing now. They were not bad and my current line up isnt all around that much better because of price but because of tone, playability etc...
I have had the worst experience with quality and customer support with the 2 most expensive basses I have bought I dont want to get into names but price alone doesnt mean anything.
I just wanted to add one thing the topic and I think its a huge component to biggest reason a bass costs what it does. The value of the builder. Mike Tobias has contributed so much to modern electric bass building and has so many years under his belt of producing amazing basses as well as Zon, Sadowsky, Fodera crew, Mike Lull, Mike Pedulla guys like this who have earned the respect of all builders and have given the better part of their lives to the art of bass building and have the experience they do deserve to make a decent living they deserve health insurance they deserve more money because of their skill and expertise. From what limited information I have most of them do not make what some players think they do actually much less than one would think and I think thats a shame.
I currently own 9 basses in all different configurations as far as fretless, fretted, different electronics, woods and other factors that make them all sound different and give me something different to bring to the table with different projects I have been in. I have been lucky enough and work hard enough to own nice German Warwicks, Mike Lull, Joe Zon, FBass, USA Lakland, Spector all pretty much north of $2,500 to $4,500. I have gigged and recorded with almost all of them and I have come to realize through experience what makes them valuable to me. I have owned the Fenders, MusicMan basses as well and sold them off not because they were cheaper but they didnt give me something I was looking for in what Im doing now. They were not bad and my current line up isnt all around that much better because of price but because of tone, playability etc...
I have had the worst experience with quality and customer support with the 2 most expensive basses I have bought I dont want to get into names but price alone doesnt mean anything.
I just wanted to add one thing the topic and I think its a huge component to biggest reason a bass costs what it does. The value of the builder. Mike Tobias has contributed so much to modern electric bass building and has so many years under his belt of producing amazing basses as well as Zon, Sadowsky, Fodera crew, Mike Lull, Mike Pedulla guys like this who have earned the respect of all builders and have given the better part of their lives to the art of bass building and have the experience they do deserve to make a decent living they deserve health insurance they deserve more money because of their skill and expertise. From what limited information I have most of them do not make what some players think they do actually much less than one would think and I think thats a shame.
- Oct 18, 2012
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- Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan, Nordstrand Pickups, Korg , Conquest Sound
A selling price that is higher than you can afford or are willing to spend.
I own several Alembics, which I purchased used. I find their attention to detail and craftsmanship to be much better than mass produced basses. However, I don't think that it is $6,000 better.
I own several Alembics, which I purchased used. I find their attention to detail and craftsmanship to be much better than mass produced basses. However, I don't think that it is $6,000 better.
Yeah but, that button pressed at the Fender factory was meticulously, and painstakingly pressed.. by hand.
I'm not sure I would want to be a high-end bass builder.
As "cool" as that job would seem to be, I'd bet it would come with all sorts of weirdness dealing with the customers.
The expectations are HUGE, the clientele would be quite demanding, and probably a hair-pulling-out mix of everything from good, solid working musicians who can feel and appreciate the subtleties and nuances of your craftsmanship... to outright rockstars (who might be a handful)...right through to the snotty orthodontists and chiropractors who want a big-dollar bass to feed their oversized egos and make up for the lack of talent. I'm sure every boutique builder rolls his eyes at some of the paying customers who they have to engage and appease.
I don't have the patience or temperment to put up with that . Glad some people do. Good for them!
As "cool" as that job would seem to be, I'd bet it would come with all sorts of weirdness dealing with the customers.
The expectations are HUGE, the clientele would be quite demanding, and probably a hair-pulling-out mix of everything from good, solid working musicians who can feel and appreciate the subtleties and nuances of your craftsmanship... to outright rockstars (who might be a handful)...right through to the snotty orthodontists and chiropractors who want a big-dollar bass to feed their oversized egos and make up for the lack of talent. I'm sure every boutique builder rolls his eyes at some of the paying customers who they have to engage and appease.
I don't have the patience or temperment to put up with that . Glad some people do. Good for them!
