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What makes an expensive bass expensive?
- Thread starter TinyE
- Start date
Relic-ing is cheating. Like wearing a concert T-shirt of a band you never saw. Or a politician lying about his imaginary military heroism hoping no one will check the records...
No hate here..........just expressing opinions (which are no more important than anyone elses.)
...or trailering your Harley to a couple of miles outside of Sturgis, and then unloading it and riding into town as if to suggest to everyone else there that you just rode 1500 long hard bad-arse miles and your coolness factor pegs the needle. (George Carlin referred to doing that as "the pussification of American motorcycle riding").
What cracks me up royally is seeing an 18 year old youngster playing a relic'd bass, as if to suggest he has been playing it long and hard on tour for the past 25 years. Not only is it cute and adorable, but I'm still trying to figure out the math on that one!
I think buying a brand new "relic'd" bass is kinda odd, but whatever.
Nothing weird about buying a used, beat up, but still good-sounding instrument, though.
Nothing weird about buying a used, beat up, but still good-sounding instrument, though.
Not at all - and I like the idea of an instrument having a history (that may or may not result in visible wear). But I do think that paying someone to artificially age an instrument is kind of taking the "sucker born every minute" idea to a new level.
On the high side, or an unusually small amount? I was discussing the reaction from construction customers when trim material is ordered- they always ask why so much more than the actual length is needed, as if they can just butt the ends together and it will look great.
If a builder can select their own, great, but that takes a huge amount of time and the surface is only visible once it has been sanded or planed. Since the wood used for the top and back is a major contributor to the cosmetics of the instrument, it's even more critical.
Fortunately, wood that won't be used for the faces can be used as a secondary wood, or sold to someone who CAN use it.
Yeah, my wife and I went down to the Toyota dealership a couple of weeks ago just to look at their new vehicles. We tried to find new ones on the showroom floor that were relic'd or road worn, but no such luck.
+1 there! (as long as the asking price reflects the lack of care)
I was talking with someone last night and he said he put 17K on his bike this year, going to Sturgis, Daytona, etc. He's 65.
Whoa! 17K? That's alot! I only rode my Harley about 5000 miles over the past year or so.
You're right dude!!! If i could I'll get a boutique ones too.
But I'm at the other side, money is a issue for me.
I work this way, i got 6 bass all of them is cheap basses ( 1Brice 6 strings- 1raven 6 str - 2 ibanez btb 5 str - 1 ibanez btb 6 str - 1 mtd fretless 5 str made in korea) from time to time i upgrade the pup's and the preamp as possible money get in, now i got 6 basses that sounds really good after the upgrades. this is the way how i can get a good sound.
When i was young my dream was to get a Yamaha TRB 6P, so until now i couldn't save money for that.
An unusually high amount. Mike was saying that finding "good" wood is getting increasingly difficult and sometimes the problems only appear once the wood is at the shop.
Generally I'd say what makes an expensive bass is volume and attention to detail and I can say from experience that the devil is in the details. And expensive bass doesn't necessarily mean perfect nor does a cheap bass mean it'll be crap. I think the economics have been fairly well covered as to why smaller shops have higher prices. One of the best basses I've owned was a Peavey Cirrus 5 and my workhorse is a G&L L-2500. I've had some custom basses from highly regarded makers with flaws that you wouldn't generally see on lower end production basses.
Even in shops with higher volume and modern machinery such as Spector, a video I saw recently said that it takes about 16 man hours over a 2-3 month period to complete a bass for their USA series. Other makers do more hand working and don't have some of these very expensive CNC machines which increases production times. More hours=more money. Having owned both Euro and USA Spectors the Euros hold up, they sound almost identical and are a great value. The attention to detail on the USA models, consistency and aesthetics are what sets them apart.
Most people could get away with a Fender, Ibanez, Peavey ect... I would be more than happy with my G&L for the rest of my life. Some people want a bass to fit their exact specifications and work with a luthier to customize every detail of their instrument to fit them from sound, balance, neck profile, weight ect... I can truly appreciate this and the level of skill to make these instruments. There are many makers out there who are true artists and craftsmen and that's what you pay for.
I've bought a couple custom basses on the secondary market and didn't dig them at all. It took me some time to realize that these basses were built for someone who isn't me. Many production basses have a generic neck profile, many based on the common Jazz, precision or stingray. After playing mostly production basses, to get something different was a bit odd but not a fault of the luthier by any stretch... it just wasn't built for me.
Something like a Sadowsky, Nordy, Celinder takes something familiar and kicks it up to the Nth degree. You get better woods, consistency, hardwear, shielding and electronics packages that are pretty special... again these things come at a price and IMO are worth the price. You can get a great Fender but it may take some picking and choosing, however, I would not hesitate to buy and Sadowsky and know I was getting a great instrument.
Even in shops with higher volume and modern machinery such as Spector, a video I saw recently said that it takes about 16 man hours over a 2-3 month period to complete a bass for their USA series. Other makers do more hand working and don't have some of these very expensive CNC machines which increases production times. More hours=more money. Having owned both Euro and USA Spectors the Euros hold up, they sound almost identical and are a great value. The attention to detail on the USA models, consistency and aesthetics are what sets them apart.
Most people could get away with a Fender, Ibanez, Peavey ect... I would be more than happy with my G&L for the rest of my life. Some people want a bass to fit their exact specifications and work with a luthier to customize every detail of their instrument to fit them from sound, balance, neck profile, weight ect... I can truly appreciate this and the level of skill to make these instruments. There are many makers out there who are true artists and craftsmen and that's what you pay for.
I've bought a couple custom basses on the secondary market and didn't dig them at all. It took me some time to realize that these basses were built for someone who isn't me. Many production basses have a generic neck profile, many based on the common Jazz, precision or stingray. After playing mostly production basses, to get something different was a bit odd but not a fault of the luthier by any stretch... it just wasn't built for me.
Something like a Sadowsky, Nordy, Celinder takes something familiar and kicks it up to the Nth degree. You get better woods, consistency, hardwear, shielding and electronics packages that are pretty special... again these things come at a price and IMO are worth the price. You can get a great Fender but it may take some picking and choosing, however, I would not hesitate to buy and Sadowsky and know I was getting a great instrument.
The price of any object is set by what people are willing to pay for it, balanced against all it's positive features. Expensive guitars still have negatives, but to the owner, they are irrelevant. There's also the psychology of it. The expense sets expectations that are met in the mind not in the physicality of the instrument. I don't really think it matters, because if in your head, the instrument is worth it - it is. To somebody else, maybe not, but that isn't important. I bought my last guitar on a blind test. I'd got enough to buy any cheap or expensive guitar in the music shop, so I played each guitar without looking at the headstock, or price ticket. Plenty went back on the hooks after just a few seconds - not right (for me). In the end, the one I liked the most had been chosen against many well known guitars that would probably be judged as 'better guitars'. I've got to the stage now where I buy what I like, and don't really worry. A good friend, who's only 19 wanted to buy a Strat, and had saved up the money. He had a Squier, which sounded ok, and played pretty well - but wanted a Strat. I offered to sell him my Strat, which I don't play any more. Mine has a better feeling neck, lower action, and a nice sound - but he wanted a new guitar, unplayed by anyone else. His new Strat in every way is just 'ok' - not special. He paid a lot of money for it - and worse still, the price came down a week after he bought it.
If you love the guitar you have, and to you, it's worth the money - it is. Other people's opinions should not count, but usually the truth is they do.
I've been watching guitar building videos on youtube, and clearly the care and attention some builders put in justify the high price tags. On the other hand, you could buy a dirt cheap Chinese kit on ebay, and do it yourself. Most of the critical differences will be down to quality. Accurate fretwork, decent wood, well designed pickups etc - but the visual appearance is what sells the guitar before it's even plugged in.
If you love the guitar you have, and to you, it's worth the money - it is. Other people's opinions should not count, but usually the truth is they do.
I've been watching guitar building videos on youtube, and clearly the care and attention some builders put in justify the high price tags. On the other hand, you could buy a dirt cheap Chinese kit on ebay, and do it yourself. Most of the critical differences will be down to quality. Accurate fretwork, decent wood, well designed pickups etc - but the visual appearance is what sells the guitar before it's even plugged in.
Been there ... done that and find it fully understandable. When you new to music and struggling with finding your own voice, then you don't want an instrument that has been tainted.
When you get experience, you don't mind a bit of mojo, buying a bruised instrument and taking care of her.
My current go to bass played death metal the first 15 years of her life.
There are some high end basses out there that don't come with a boutique price. Some of the older Westone/Electra basses are very solid in construction and tone. There's also G&L..which aren't cheap, but have never been super pricey, either. Tune basses are pretty awesome, too.
what are the most expensive non wood parts you can even get for a bass? Do $1500 pick ups even exist for example? I don't believe the price increase is always proportional. You ever notice how everyone usually claims their "cheap" bass sounds amazing, well if you spend more money perhaps you just believe it more. jk
There is only so much you can do until the cost of materials starts to max out. Cost of labour and skill is about the only thing that can be limitless. I wouldn't mind a hand made bass from someone who really knows their stuff but a bass that costs more than a car is not smart use of my finances or is it something I even need.
There is only so much you can do until the cost of materials starts to max out. Cost of labour and skill is about the only thing that can be limitless. I wouldn't mind a hand made bass from someone who really knows their stuff but a bass that costs more than a car is not smart use of my finances or is it something I even need.
Don't let looks fool you
There are chinese copies of everything, find the youtube video of Jens ritter going down to hall E at NAMM to find a chinese knock off of one of his own designs...For me it was never the price first. It was who made the best for me. Accuracy, tolerances, and then a lot of extra attention to detail. The way they play when taken from the hands of the builder...shipping directly to you knowing that some dingbat didn't mess something up before you played it. The tolerances of pickup routes, neck pockets, glue joins, the setup... I see it as "what is more correct" a perfectly cut route with no excess material moved, neck pockets that one can not get a human hair into go into tonal things as well. How much time and effort that is required to make a fretboard truely level... level at tension...how many .0000's is close enough. just like cars, precision parts, the build quality and more than anything execution of the work. I look at wood choice as secondary, kinda in the bag of if I have to look at wood quality then the builder is not good enough for my money, not on the same level of expectations. I do look at time of ownership of said wood (more pointing at ebony or other woods that like to shrink over time) Sanding time...finish prep. truely and accurately making wood flat where it needs to be, properly blended into carves/roundovers/cutaways without a crease, in carves how consistent the shape is (execution of a 3d plan in ones head or on paper) this applies to round overs edge sanding the little break on the edge of headstocks, the end of the fretboard by the nut, heelless neckthrough transitions, ultimately making a better surface for finish to be applied to, ultimately how thin the finish can be, while remaining at a constant thickness, after finish sanding and buffing, how well the wood was sealed/pores filled/ time to properly dry/cure between each finishing step. Then I look at the overall sum of it and hear the bass as a voice made for a reason by somebody else. If/not the builder makes there own parts, pickups, preamp.
The effortless to play, distraction free - 100% unhindered ability to play an instrument without ever talking back. An instrument that matches your technique, style, ability, and needs. to me the only way to get everything right has to be done the first time...right. Tone wise everybody hears tone in a different way. I have had a dozen high end basses. the price is high but worth the relief (no pun intended) it gives me at every gig I take the bass to.
Imagine an instrument that that has really low action, you can play very hard, it doesn't buzz, has dynamics for days, no dead spots (not always), and spacing wise is exactly what your hand wants to do without modifying your technique. That in practice sounds devine, and live always heard (at least by you). You don't have to think about playing, you just do. They have the ability to disappear on your body and sound just flows from your finger tips.
Don't get into it if you can't afford it. There is no going back once the lid has been lifted. TB is the best way to get into it if you can. This is the place to go for other bassists in the same boat looking for the right bass. the High end world has little loyalty so basses are traded all the time, at a bargain. Many times by cats that can't afford it, really. Other than having a bass specialty shop that is the best way to try the out. perhaps organizing a get together with local bassists. Try emailing some small builders to demo one with a deposit. Best of luck.
oh I almost forgot. Buy a Callowhill bass or Nordstrand bass, or at least Nordstrand pickups.
- Oct 3, 2004
- 536
- 616
- Disclosures
- Jackie endorses Sire guitars,EBS amps and pedals,Dunlop Strings,Evidence Audio cables,and iGiG cases
That's not always true my brother!!! As an owner of an original '74 Fender jazz bass and currently owning 8 different Lakland basses,and playing countless others in between,I've come to find that cost does not make a great bass.While the components may be better(and that's still remains to be seen sometimes as everyone cuts corners sometimes) the person building it may not have the same integrity,passion about building as the one making the cheaper instrument.
I've played $6000 Fodera basses that were only good for firewood and I've played cheap basses that I've recorded numerous records with.
It's hit or miss with any instrument...if you find one that works for your situations,that's the best bass for you.Only reason I'm even playing Laklands(even though I love em) is because I was blessed to land an artist endorsement with them.
Even though I'm not an artist anymore,I still play all of them because the ones I have were made quite well.I still put my old Fender up against any bass and while it may not be better,it's definitely in the conversation.
