What would YOU do to save Gibson?

[ThudThudThud]

who is this henry guy i assume im supposed to dislike?

i diddnt know gibson had problems..

well, here's a hypothetical question i don't know enough about to give a good answer too, but this is also the internet, so here i go;

i would look at what the guitar instrument market needs and try and figure out where its going. i would try and meet current and future needs. i would also take into account that Gibson is one of, if not the, biggest name in the industry so that needs to be considered.

a core line of top quality more traditionally oriented guitars would make sense - but i'm also not sure how well those are actually going to sell. i know we all think gibson needs to make those things, but i wonder if they would make a lot of money producing them.

the rest is easy. make the highest quality guitars at the pricepoint you can sell the most of them. bearing in mind that quality should move the product, not gimmicks.

the more web-based the better. guitar center does still exist as of now, february 2018, but if you plan to run a guitar company indefinetely, expect everything to be web based during your tenure there.

I agree. Let's take a look at their Jeff Beck 54 Les Paul. No adjustable bridge. If you're Jeff Beck you can just bend any note into pitch (he's a musical note God. All notes do just what he wants because they love him, and want to please him!). If you're rich guitar collector, that's fine. If you are a player, you'll never be happy with the intonation. And you'll never be Jeff Beck.
For $5K+ for these, it's a gimmick, not a usable guitar. Not going to sell to anyone but Jeff Beck aficionados.

 

[Heavy Blue]

Actually, I bought an SG used with humbuckers, so I don't need one with P-90's (I have a Korean Casino to cover the P-90 area).

And yes, Gibby did make LH Thunderbirds in 2013, and I think they brought them back for this year. But screw 'em, I bought a Gaskill when they were available:

View attachment 2924254

Nice Gaskell! They're Aussie aren't they?

 

[Farseer]

I play Fender basses and Gibson guitars a little personal comparison:

I have a 2015 Les Paul and a 2016 Flying V. Both are amazing guitars. Zero issues from day one. Now, I did pull the G-force tuner off of the LP and put traditional tuners and a bone nut on. Gibson does pleking on they're guitars and the frets and necks are amazing. As far as price, I paid $1100.00 for the LP and $1400.00 for the V. In my mind not over priced. Both came with TKL hard cases.

I own a 2006 Highway One Precision and a 2015 Geddy Lee Jazz. The Highway One's nut was cut to deep from the factory and had terrible fret buzz across the board. I had to replace the nut. The Geddy had high frets at 6 and 7 position from the factory. I had to have the frets filed and at the same time I had the nut replaced. I think the Highway One was $1100.00 new and the GL was $1500.00 new. Highway One came with a gig bag the GL came with a hsc. In my mind not overpriced.

Bottom line the Gibson were ready to play, set up well and no problems right out the box. The Fenders, small problems but....

 

[Gaolee]

I'd like an EB2.

Yeah, I know.....

I have an EB-2. It's not for sale and never will be.

Just in case this hasn't been posted before:
Gibson Brands In Process of Refinancing of Company's Bonds

 

[ScrewDevil]

If I were trying to save the company, I might consider selling my products at something closer to a realistic price. Just a thought.

 

[gjohnson441496]

I actually posted a blog about this yesterday.

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From the link^... "My advice is this: Move back to Kalamazoo and focus on your core values and products. Use PR to make a BIG deal of this. Try to hold Fender to this standard. Slash the Gibson model line to your core set – Les Paul, SG, and the Thunderbird bass. Make AT MOST 2 versions of each, no more. Do only limited once-every-couple-years runs of models like the 335. Then fire-sale the rest of inventory to cover financial obligations. Don’t look at it as a ‘cut your losses’ move – this is getting back to the essence of who you are."

 

[shortscalesrule]

According to an article the creditors won't save Gibson unless they get a new CEO.
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I think that's pretty standard in such circumstances, although Henry seems to be an especially choice candidate for defenestration. The question will be how big and what color his parachute are.

 

[ab2112]

Also, why move back to Kalamazoo? I lived in Kzoo for two years in grad school and grew up in West Michigan - we'd darn sure love more jobs, especially ones building guitars.

But, Heritage guitars is doing just fine, and is in the process of renovating the factory as we speak to include a brewery and retail space. Besides not getting the old factory back, what would moving the whole operation back to a town that is "over" Gibson really do for Gibson?

Asking purely out of curiosity, not to be argumentative.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Funny thing is that Henry is a Harvard MBA investment banker, bought the company for a song - relatively speaking - and did make improvements early on to regain competitiveness in the late 80's/early 90's. From then on...oh did I say he is an investment banker... market dynamics (shrinking market) and rising costs PLUS the rise of superior competition hurt.

PRS was the fist ice bucket in the face. Numerous other luthiers with better guitars and more competitive prices AND personalized service was the second. Shrinking market and dealer consolidation - hampered with debt - didn't help either.

I am a collector with numerous Gibsons, made dating back to 1944, and in reality, the constant " super premium price point variation on a theme" got old fast. Not too mention the comparative poor quality versus a lower priced PRS or Fender American Deluxe. Do I really want a van paint style Les Paul at $5k? A new L5 Jazz box costs more than my 1961!

I think he did a good job with the low end of the market (as did Fender with MIM,MIK,Squire) with Epiphone. Many might say the 10-20 price multiple of a Gibson vs Epi ain't worth the differential.

At the end of the day, the current market dynamics aren't good for mass market instrument makers. Even Fender pulled an initial public offering four or five years back - I read it in consideration and damn, who would buy it given Fender's AND Guitar Center's financial position and mounting liabilities - their largest dealer, declining core markets and rising costs.

But hey, remember they said Fender Strats and Gibson Les Pauls were dead when polyphonic synths , drum machines, and pointy Jacksons and BC Rich's hit the streets? I do - showing my age here.

I give Henry credit for diversifying and attempting to leverage the iconic brand. For improving manufacturing methods - but at the expense of craftsmanship; for range extending lines - but too much variation on a theme; and buying complementary music brands - but killing some off along the way - ouch.

But service sucked - my guitarist has two Alex Lifeson Les Pauls from the Custom Shop and one headstock snapped. Custom Shop said send it in and we will have it back in 5 weeks. Four months later with no communication it returned and he had to get the neck refinished.

Too much debt to achieve the growth objectives kills everyone sooner or later. And the consumer electronics business is a killer - ask Sony. (Philips - really?)

I just hope someone in the USA buys the brand, but in all likelihood, it'll be a foreign entity with a strong music brand portfolio contributing economies of scale, distribution, and deep pockets.

Nonetheless, I still get butterflies in my stomach when I see a Gibson Les Paul, SG, L5 or ES335 hanging on the wall like I did when I bought my first bass guitar in 1971 - a Gibson EB3 with pink fur lined case for $227, used at Frank Richards Music Store in Livingston, NJ, with money saved from my paper route - still have it.

I agree that PRS was a problem, but not sure if it impacted Gibson's customers more?

Once Gibson retooled, PRS was no doubt an impetus to increase prices. Fender being bolt on, never really a good comparison. Up until that point, Les Paul Customs were still around $1300-1500 back in the 90's. Henry no doubt saw stars and dollar signs. Henry decided to use PRS to drag his company offerings upscale, after all, they both have set necks, his reasoning, not mine. He's on record with this.

The learning curve on the new equipment along with training new employees brought a ridiculous mount of strangely colored and configured guitars which if you were a dealer, you had to take. Back in the late 80's early 90's Gibson made the dealers take so many pieces, every month, in ADDITION to any order the store would place. Lime green metalflake single pickup Explorers just one of many sent. The guy who owned the store I part timed at once remarked I could give them an order for twice what he had to take and sell them, but the stuff they sent, was more of a loss leader, and Gibson knew it.

Then, Henry wanted to get into "lifestyle branding" along with consumer electronics. Imagine skipping NAMM for the Consumer Electronics, maybe he wants to hang with the porn stars that frequent the show for their production companies. Seems stupid to me to lower your opinion on the product you make when it's a musical instrument, not a uncle of intergrated circuits.

But what do I know, I own more Gibson but prefer Fenders, so clearly I'm not wrapped too tight.

 

[Two-Spirit]

I never plan on buying a Gibson Product again but if they go under someone else will just buy the trademarks and build Gibsons.

 

[Two-Spirit]

When I was 18 I had an Epiphone Les Paul and I hated that nobody let me enjoy it. I'm sure it sounded nothing like a Gibson but it was still a cool guitar.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Reported

12 years down the toilet!

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I'd let them prove their success themselves.

It's been a slow leak, but they've been sinking a long while.

That said, I do have a spot for their "charm" but you can't stay in the big leagues just because you were once top dog. I do wish them well, however.

I certainly wish the employees well. I was enjoying

Gibson needs... an obsessed guitar nerd at the helm. Go online and watch videos of Paul Reed Smith talking about guitars. Watch how he talks about the people that work with him (he admires the things they do). Watch him play his guitars. He lives, eats, breathes, and sleeps guitars, and he knows how to treat people. EVERYTHING else flows from that - good employees, employee satisfaction, innovation among the people at the company, and that....is why you get great guitars from PRS.

Gibson is in trouble because they think they don't have to do anything but manage the business they have better. Wrong - they need to obsess about what they make - live, eat, breathe, and sleep the stuff. They're in trouble because Paul and his folks have EARNED enough of their business that Gibson can't profit from what they have left. The only thing they have going for them at this point is that Paul is not 30 years old any more - if Gibson gets the right whippersnapper running the place, they have a chance at becoming great again. If the business types continue to run the place, they're toast.

Fender also needs to watch out - all it takes is one other obsessed guy that takes aim at what they do, and they could be history. Yes, it'll take a while, but if the right guy comes along, the way Fender does things will take them down the very same road.

Gibson needs someone with sufficient financial and organisational skills that can also marshall required information about what to sell. Being a guitar nut is not the required skill set and might lead to poor business choices.

 

[Two-Spirit]

I think it would be cool if PRS bought Gibsons trademarks.

 

[Brian D]

18 pages in so I think I'm a bit late to the game here with the comments.

I'd strip it right back.

- Consolidate factories. Three separate production facilities in the USA alone is a stretch. Move all into one facility, or at the least move all electric incl. semi-hollow into one facility with acoustic separate.
- Reduce SKUs. Too many different models, colours and variations currently. Consult with players (professional, semi-pro, and amateur) on the model offerings.
- Cut back production. Reduce production levels to a level where you can maintain consistent quality.
- Sell off some assets. Gibson is renowned for purchasing companies and killing them or running their product line into the ground. Sell them off instead! e.g. Steinberger, Kramer, Valley Arts, Cakewalk... etc.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Also, why move back to Kalamazoo? ..... Heritage guitars is doing just fine, and is in the process of renovating the factory as we speak to include a brewery and retail space. Besides not getting the old factory back, what would moving the whole operation back to a town that is "over" Gibson really do for Gibson?

...when (fixed it for you) they go under someone else will just buy the trademarks and build Gibsons.

I see it as Heritage having a budget line: Gibson by Heritage. You know, kind of like Squier is to Fender, but will not be good enough in quality to move people to want to buy them.

 

[ATLbassist]

Congrats on the new release!

New phone, who dis?

 

[EdO.]

but I'd buy a reverse thunderbird in a heartbeat if there was a solid Epiphone one.

Uh, hello?? Epiphone Thunderbird bass | Sweetwater

 

[jdthebassman]

the first thing I would do is of course is fire henry j then I would call all my employees in take them out for lunch and tell them that things will change, their input is needed, how valuable they are and treat them like family. then work on making the QC better, rekindle relationships with retailers and listen to the customers. and finely I would work to stop the CITIES fascists from importing and exporting guitars that were vintage or already made.

 

[dukeorock]

“What would YOU do to save this thread?”

Stop reading only the OP then skip ahead to spout off the same nonsense a thousand times. Gibson Guitars is still making a profit. They own a bunch of companies and have a debt problem.