What would YOU do to save Gibson?

[40Hz]

Where do you see Henry the J, in this plan?

Gone.

Somebody has to take the fall. That’s the way it usually works in a refinancing move or a bail-out. A sacrifical lamb is called for. And Mr. J is more deserving of that role than many other CEOs who have been made to fall on the proverbial sword for far smaller messes IMO.

I also think there’s something fundamentally wrong with him based on his increasingly erratic behavior over the last several years. So not the sort of person you want to leave in charge in any event.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I say 'Viva The Revolution!!" I'm tired of being dictated to by one or two major Jurassic instrument companies that keep trotting out products from over half a century ago that are still considered "cutting edge".

That's part of the issue. There are a number of quality manufacturers that have been in business two, three or four or more decades that have invested well in modern CNC and QC that seem to be able to crank out creditable heritage pieces, as well as updates or significant innovation.

 

[BobKos]

Have the entire board of Gibson sit down with Sterling Ball for a few days of how to do the guitar business training. Love him or hate him, SB has kept EBMM alive and well with great products that a loyal customer base wants and is willing to pay for. I am a Jazz Bass player but I own 6 EBMMs - and zero Gibsons. IF Gibson were to re-introduce the Victory bass i would consider it. Otherwise they mean nothing to me if they fail. They don't sell basses I want.

 

[ctmullins]

Here’s a blast from the past - sounds like the outlook was pretty rosy 24 years ago:

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[Road Hat]

Here’s a blast from the past - sounds like the outlook was pretty rosy 24 years ago:

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Cool article. I liked this part - my how things have changed.


"Gibson is now doing everything right, and we're definitely selling more of them," said Scott Black, sales manager of the Guitar Center in Los Angeles, a 17-outlet chain that is the largest guitar retailer in the country.“

 

[GBBSbassist]

The basic design and 50+ years worth of extensively field tested and heavily vetted mods and improvements have already been created and catalogued. And we now have a very good idea of what works and what doesn’t and how to accomplish it when it comes to these instruments.

I guess Gibson forgot to test the LP's and SG's by actually playing them then, because the tuning stability across every single range of models available for both is among the worst of all manufacturers I've played.

 

[40Hz]

I guess Gibson forgot to test the LP's and SG's by actually playing them then, because the tuning stability across every single range of models available for both is among the worst of all manufacturers I've played.

That hasn’t been my experience. My four Gibson basses are steady as a rock when it comes to tuning. As is my vintage ES-125-TC. Nor is it my GF’s experience. Her old ‘82 LP Custom holds its tuning just fine. Better than do a couple of the eight or so Strats she owns. And three bands I’ve been in had SG players. Tuning stability on those guitars was as good as it was for anything else in those bands. But if that’s not been your experience, I won’t argue. You have to go by what you’ve actually seen.

However, if Gibson would just stop using mahogany for the necks, that would probably help matters greatly in any event. Maple or a multi-piece neck would work out a lot better IMO. Probably be cheaper to source too. And no CITES worries with maple either.

 

[ctmullins]

That hasn’t been my experience. My four Gibson basses are steady as a rock when it comes to tuning.

Isn’t tuning stability largely a function of the quality of the tuning keys, and how well they’re adjusted?

Maple or a multi-piece neck would work out a lot better IMO. Probably be cheaper to source too. And no CITES worries with maple either.

Bring back Norlin!! Seriously, the three-piece maple neck with volute, a hallmark of the Norlin years, was light-years better than the traditional (and, sadly, current) construction.

 

[40Hz]

Bring back Norlin!! Seriously, the three-piece maple neck with volute, a hallmark of the Norlin years, was light-years better than the traditional (and, sadly, current) construction.

You’ve got that so right!

The traditionalist Gibson snobs love to diss the so-called Norlin Years. But like you, I think most of Gibson’s truly great designs and instruments came out of that period.

And yes, bring back the bloody volute you morons! My two Rippers have them. My new EB doesn’t. Stupid move on Gibson's part.

 

[40Hz]

Isn’t tuning stability largely a function of the quality of the tuning keys, and how well they’re adjusted?

That and the stability of the neck. But yes, if there’s a lot of play in the tuners, or the strings are wound on the pegs incorrectly you’ll get drift and slippage.

If Gibson were smart they’d outsource tuner manufacturing to some heavy hitter like Hipshot. I’m sure they could get them to put a Gibson logo on if they ordered enough. Or maybe not if Gibson no longer cares about somebody else’s name appearing on their instruments. The new EB sports a Babicz bridge. And the big honkin’ name on that thing can be read halfway across the room. That’s something that would have been unimaginable a few years ago.

About the only other branded thing I can recall ever seeing on a factory fresh Gibson before that was the Bigsby vibrato. Gibson had no choice with that since Bigsby still had a patent on it when was super popular in the 60s. So Bigsby got to make the rules.

 

[selowitch]

Isn’t tuning stability largely a function of the quality of the tuning keys, and how well they’re adjusted?

I've played bass for 35 years and guitar for about 5 and I've never once heard about "adjusting" a tuning key (except, of course, for increasing/decreasing the string tension in order to tune it). I guess I must be suffering from longstanding ignorance on this point. What does that entail?

 

[ctmullins]

Increasing or decreasing the tension in the gears themselves. Friction, or whatever the right term for it is. Super-easy.

 

[ctmullins]

If Gibson were smart they’d outsource tuner manufacturing to some heavy hitter like Hipshot. I’m sure they could get them to put a Gibson logo on if they ordered enough.

My 2002-ish Gibson Tobias has Schaller M4 tuners with a discreet “Gibson” stamp. So there’s precedent.

The new EB sports a Babicz bridge. And the big honkin’ name on that thing can be read halfway across the room.

That’s just gross, whether on a Gibson or anything else.

 

[selowitch]

Increasing or decreasing the tension in the gears themselves. Friction, or whatever the right term for it is. Super-easy.

How is this accomplished?

 

[40Hz]

My 2002-ish Gibson Tobias has Schaller M4 tuners with a discreet “Gibson” stamp. So there’s precedent.

View attachment 2926195



That’s just gross, whether on a Gibson or anything else.

Agree about the Babicz. It is pretty gauche looking.

I also haven’t found it noticeably better (let alone superior) to any other bridge on any other bass I own. And that includes the unfairly maligned Gibson 3-point and the Fender “bent hunk o’ metal” bridge.

Babicz is like Monster to me. Very high degree of truthiness to be found in their marketing.

 

[40Hz]

How is this accomplished?

Best way is with a high gear ratio and precision machining of the screw and gear teeth. If there’s play in that you can get tuning drift.

A quick and dirty test is to tune a string up and then down. If the tune up is smooth, but there’s a slight lag in response or sudden jump in pitch when you tune the string back down, odds are good there’s too much play in the gears. If the pitch changes go smoothly and evenly, and respond immediately in both directions, then your tuners are of good quality and operating properly. It’s like “endplay” in an automatic transmission where you put the car in reverse or drive and there’s a fraction of a second of nothing before you get that sudden bump and clunk as the gear engages.

On really cheap tuners you’ll find you can tune up to a note just fine. But if you tune up too high, the only thing you can do is drop back down below the desired pitch and try tuning up again. That’s because accurately tuning down isn’t really doable due to sloppy tolerances.

When you tune up the string, its tension keeps the gear snugly against the screw. But release that tension on the string and you get some slippage between the gear and the screw.

 

[ctmullins]

How is this accomplished?

Well, I tried to do the lazy thing and find an article somebody else had already written, but failed.

So see below for my crudely marked-up photo. Left to right is a Grover Titan (Y-key), Schaller/Fender Ultralight (clover key), and Hipshot Ultralite (clover key). Almost all Y-key tuners have the adjustment screw at the top of the Y. Clover keys can’t do this, so the adjustment screw is at the base of the shaft.

I must confess that I loathe, and have never used, the large traditional Fender-style open-back tuners. Maybe not all of them are adjustable?

 

[selowitch]

Well, I tried to do the lazy thing and find an article somebody else had already written, but failed.

So see below for my crudely marked-up photo. Left to right is a Grover Titan (Y-key), Schaller/Fender Ultralight (clover key), and Hipshot Ultralite (clover key). Almost all Y-key tuners have the adjustment screw at the top of the Y. Clover keys can’t do this, so the adjustment screw is at the base of the shaft.

View attachment 2926310

I must confess that I loathe, and have never used, the large traditional Fender-style open-back tuners. Maybe not all of them are adjustable?

Thank you. I have often wondered what those screws were for! My Fender Stu Hamm Urge Bass uses Gotoh GB7s but I don’t think they have adjustment screws.

 

[ctmullins]

I believe every GB7 ever made has them, but I could be wrong...

 

[selowitch]

I believe every GB7 ever made has them, but I could be wrong...

I’ll check.