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What's better 1234 or 124 style?
- Thread starter icebolt99
- Start date
So how do you do something like G-A-Bb in 124? It seems 123 would be more natural if you're not going to do 134.
I am also wondering how 124 works in practical settings. For most music I play, I can have a "home" position for my fretting hand to cover the major scale (provided the music is written in a major key). In this position, my middle finger starts on the root note, and if playing a scale, my ring finger would play the 7th note in the scale.
For those that use the 124 method, how does one play through a major scale using only those 3 fingers? It doesn't seem very practical to me.
I have fairly small hands for a man my size (I'm 5'11"), but when I first started learning at age 16, the first hand exercise that my teacher had me practice was starting with my index finger on the first fret, play frets 1 through 4 using one finger per fret. And as I move up to the next fret, work at continuing to hold the previous fret with that same finger as to not change positions of my hand. Once I reached the 4th fret, I had to work my way back to fret 1 removing only one finger at a time. It is a difficult exercise at first, but it was a great help for keeping me from unnecessarily shifting my hand up and down the neck.
For those that use the 124 method, how does one play through a major scale using only those 3 fingers? It doesn't seem very practical to me.
I have fairly small hands for a man my size (I'm 5'11"), but when I first started learning at age 16, the first hand exercise that my teacher had me practice was starting with my index finger on the first fret, play frets 1 through 4 using one finger per fret. And as I move up to the next fret, work at continuing to hold the previous fret with that same finger as to not change positions of my hand. Once I reached the 4th fret, I had to work my way back to fret 1 removing only one finger at a time. It is a difficult exercise at first, but it was a great help for keeping me from unnecessarily shifting my hand up and down the neck.
124 is not a practical application for scales, it is a practical application using what is best for the hand, not the scales, it is a means to an end that's why it need to be practiced.
Go to my previous post where i describe some exercises and them to feel and understand the concept, if it is not for you then fine.
There is less chance of sagittal band damage, wrist damage and joint damage using 124 over 1234 because there is less strain.
OK so the hand has to move a bit more to play, but that is because it is using stronger finger positions to support the music.
Learning 124 is what preceeds learning 1234.....not practical????....then think....... why does a baby learn to crawl when it is less practical than walking?
Go to my previous post where i describe some exercises and them to feel and understand the concept, if it is not for you then fine.
There is less chance of sagittal band damage, wrist damage and joint damage using 124 over 1234 because there is less strain.
OK so the hand has to move a bit more to play, but that is because it is using stronger finger positions to support the music.
Learning 124 is what preceeds learning 1234.....not practical????....then think....... why does a baby learn to crawl when it is less practical than walking?
I actually learned 1234 first, but use both because each has its application. On occasion I'll use 134. I've learned that for me, what works, works and though every song can be played with 1234, each song has its own calling.
Twice last night my band leader made us play our 10 minute montage of songs based on the Billie Jean riff. It is much easier to have the necessary endurance with 124. Of course, you can play it other ways, but likely none are more efficient.
A with most techniques, the question is not "which is better," but "which safely gets the job done this time around."
Twice last night my band leader made us play our 10 minute montage of songs based on the Billie Jean riff. It is much easier to have the necessary endurance with 124. Of course, you can play it other ways, but likely none are more efficient.
A with most techniques, the question is not "which is better," but "which safely gets the job done this time around."
Actually, it is probably beneficial to start with (and continue to practice) 1234 so that no finger is ignored. Even when using other fingerings, all fingers should be under control.
I am no pro or teacher so take my opinion with a grain.
I am no pro or teacher so take my opinion with a grain.
Okay, I understand now. I pulled up a video on YouTube talking about bad habits of using one finger per fret as a rule. That is not what I do. I play what feels natural and comfortable and move my hand position when needed. I thought the original post was referring to using 124 when 1234 applied, so I was confused as to why the hand would shift to cover the 3rd fret in that scenario when it shouldn't be necessary.
I've never heard fingering methods referred to in terms of 124 vs 1234, so it took me a little while to catch on to what this thread was discussing anyway.
I've never heard fingering methods referred to in terms of 124 vs 1234, so it took me a little while to catch on to what this thread was discussing anyway.
1234, OFPF, etc refers to one finger per fret being used in freting notes.
124 is the use of combining the ring and little finger, this involves the ring finger supportng the little finger when it frets. It is called 124 because the third finger does not produce the note on the fingerboard of a fretless or up-right bass when used with the 4th....the 4th produces the desired pitch.
On an instrument without frets such systems are used to correctly pitch notes, the use of two fingers together can be used to 'measure off' the correct distance between semitones and tones.
So of you place all four fingers in a line on a single string to play a B using the 4th finger, then lifting off 3 and 4 together will pitch Bb and so on.
It depends on many factors, these are just the guidelines to adopt within the correct hand postions (in fingerboard terminology we talk of hand positions, not fret positions).
Because of frets the exactness of fingering is not crucial to the pitch or tone, so sloppy technique is not such an issue.
For example if i place a C on a fretted instrument and use another finger to play an F directly above it the fingers can be side by side and produce the notes because they are inside the fret, the width of the fret is the playing area because the fret wire cuts of the note...not the fingertips.
On a fingerboard the this cannot happen because the If the C is correctly pitched then the F will be sharp because they are not on the same exact line, in essence we only have the width of the actual fret wire to play in line with, not the space between them because the fingertips provide the cut off for the string as there is no frets.
The same is also true in reverse, of the F is pitched correct then fingers side by side to produce a C under it produces a flat C note, etc etc.
124 is the use of combining the ring and little finger, this involves the ring finger supportng the little finger when it frets. It is called 124 because the third finger does not produce the note on the fingerboard of a fretless or up-right bass when used with the 4th....the 4th produces the desired pitch.
On an instrument without frets such systems are used to correctly pitch notes, the use of two fingers together can be used to 'measure off' the correct distance between semitones and tones.
So of you place all four fingers in a line on a single string to play a B using the 4th finger, then lifting off 3 and 4 together will pitch Bb and so on.
It depends on many factors, these are just the guidelines to adopt within the correct hand postions (in fingerboard terminology we talk of hand positions, not fret positions).
Because of frets the exactness of fingering is not crucial to the pitch or tone, so sloppy technique is not such an issue.
For example if i place a C on a fretted instrument and use another finger to play an F directly above it the fingers can be side by side and produce the notes because they are inside the fret, the width of the fret is the playing area because the fret wire cuts of the note...not the fingertips.
On a fingerboard the this cannot happen because the If the C is correctly pitched then the F will be sharp because they are not on the same exact line, in essence we only have the width of the actual fret wire to play in line with, not the space between them because the fingertips provide the cut off for the string as there is no frets.
The same is also true in reverse, of the F is pitched correct then fingers side by side to produce a C under it produces a flat C note, etc etc.
I understand a little better now that you have explained that 124 means the ring finger is supporting the pinky. I thought people were saying there's something wrong with using the ring finger. I like my ring finger, it's one of my favorites.
That's backwards, actually. The pinky is supporting the ring finger, as it is the weakest finger on the hand.
1234. It gives more reach and speed due to the economy of motion.
I can also play 124, but only because I play upright. 124 is natural for upright bass because you need to double up 3 and 4 fingers to support the weak 4. No such need on electric, so why use it?.
I occasional use 124 fingering on electric if I am trying to figure out an upright part.
I see a lot more bassists playing 123 than 124.
The only folks I see playing 124 are guys that started on upright.
I can also play 124, but only because I play upright. 124 is natural for upright bass because you need to double up 3 and 4 fingers to support the weak 4. No such need on electric, so why use it?.
I occasional use 124 fingering on electric if I am trying to figure out an upright part.
I see a lot more bassists playing 123 than 124.
The only folks I see playing 124 are guys that started on upright.
Interesting concept, so if i fret a low G with my ring finger, how do i use my little finger to support it?
I'm not following your illustration, so I can't properly respond. If I'm following you, it seems that you're saying that you play OFPF, so your pinky doesn't support the ring finger. That's actually irrelevant to my point. I'm merely pointing out that using ring and pinky together is partly because the ring finger is weak, and partly to aid in intonating a fretless instrument.
It is, however, indisputable physiological fact that the ring finger is the weakest finger. Can you train it to be strong enough to fret by itself? Certainly, but electric bass techniques evolved from upright techniques, and the ring finger really isn't strong enough there. You need both ring and pinky together. (A least, this is the official position at Michigan State and Western Michigan Universities.)
It is, however, indisputable physiological fact that the ring finger is the weakest finger. Can you train it to be strong enough to fret by itself? Certainly, but electric bass techniques evolved from upright techniques, and the ring finger really isn't strong enough there. You need both ring and pinky together. (A least, this is the official position at Michigan State and Western Michigan Universities.)
I thought bass guitar technique evolved from guitar technique.
As per the OP, I started playing eb, but quickly took to the upright. I took lessons on upright and so whenever I play electric I always use the 124 technique in the lower positions and use 123(4) above the 12th fret.
I trained all my fingers to be independant of each other and I can play one finger per frets.
What I see is a lot of people use index,middle,ring finger and a lot of over-the-top thumb ( especially guitar player ). On the DB it is important to use 1-2-4 for two reason :
1- intonation is easier that way
2- the scale of the thing is big, much bigger than a bass guitar
What I see is a lot of people use index,middle,ring finger and a lot of over-the-top thumb ( especially guitar player ). On the DB it is important to use 1-2-4 for two reason :
1- intonation is easier that way
2- the scale of the thing is big, much bigger than a bass guitar
