What's so special about John Entwistle?

[Tubehed]

I happen to love the Who and The Ox. It doesn't bother me that some people don't care for the band, think he is overrated, or whatever. I actually like that we all don't agree because that would really be boring if we did. If you don't like a certain artist, band or genre, I would be a fool to try to convince you otherwise.

What does irritate me, though, are these over-the-top statements about artists who are clearly talented, unique and innovative being "terrible", "incapable", or only reliant on other people to play well or sound good. True talent, innovation and originality always deserves to be recognized and respected. I think.

 

[lermgalieu]

I am not at all an Ox devotee (don't even like the Who that much), but give me a break. Dude was a giant, and it was obvious.

 

[jbhaugh]

Entwistle definitely has some really impressive performances, but since I find the music of the Who to be so deeply uninteresting it's a little difficult to get excited about.

 

[Eric Swaim]

I'm not the biggest rock fan out there, but I can see why people like John Paul Jones, John Deacon, Geezer Butler and the likes.

I can even see why people like Cliff Burton, although I think he's seriously overrated.

But I don't understand why John Entwistle is so highly regarded here on TalkBass and in the media. I listened to The Who's top songs on Spotify and watched a few videos on YouTube. Sure, he has that sort of tapping technique and a few fills on "My Generation," but is that it? I guess he did come before Jones et al., making him a pioneer?

I'm being serious here. I'm not trolling. What am I missing?

You have too look at it from a bass historical perspective. What were rock bass players doing up that point. What did he do that hadn't been done already. Was "my generation" solo the first rock bass solo up to that time period. Did he lay down all the bass tracks or did the Who hire someone else to do it for him. What sounds was John using that others were not, etc., etc. Then you will have a better perspective about any player you research.

My first bass teacher David Hyde (look him up on youtube)told me in 1980 to go back to the beginning of rock and roll, blues, country, jazz, whatever music you are interested in and see how the bass evolved to what it is today(1980 at that moment). Then Rock & Roll was roughly 25. It was good advise then and is today as well. Not only do players need to learn to play, but also need a history lesson on how the bass evolved.

 

[WestyBassBob]

There are many who say that Moon did some crazy stuff but Entwistke was the actual crazy one.

Keith was more like a comedian. But that wouldn't surprise me. John was definitely an odd dude.

 

[Dominic D]

John said that French horn is a lot like using your right and on bass and that's how he became so proficient at fingerstyle bass.

But French horn is played with your left hand.

 

[7615]

Back when The Who broke out John Entwistle was seen as a beast on bass with aggressive style and tone. When I look at his playing now I often feel like he is highly overrated in comparison to how bassist have evolved over the past half century. What I can safely give him credit for was attempt to put the bass in the limelight, some of it good and some just noodling around BS at high volume. Is he a bass pioneer? Yes, he stood out and made some noise for a minute when many bassist were stuck on root notes. Was he a prodigy? Far from it. His noodling around and self-professed unknown right-handed fingerings exposed him a wandering explorer at best.

His playing is how one must play when faced with a lead drummer. Up high a lot and create motion - that is not noodling - Moon dictated what he had to do to be heard and what he had to play so as to not collide with Moon's unpredictability - Moon fills constantly where a bassist might want to fill.

That is not noodling - that is a master musician finding space in a very difficult situation.

Both Entwistle and Bruce are actually musically fighting for space due to the drummers.

 

[diegom]

The fun need NOT stop here!!!

For your debating pleasure, I present What's so special about Larry Graham?

 

[WestyBassBob]

But French horn is played with your left hand.

Right. So that made fretting easy since he was already dexterous with his left hand. Then all he had to do was pluck or tap the strings with his dominant hand.

in truth I think playing any instrument makes learning another one easier. Like learning a second and third language.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

But French horn is played with your left hand.

You're right. He did say in an interview, I believe in Bass Player mag years ago, that he developed chops on bass from horn and piano.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

Chris Squire listed Entwhistle as a major influence on him, in an era when most bassists sounded like mud wrapped in cotton, his use of roundwounds and super trebly EQ cut through. I think I remember reading that Squire and Entwhistle had the first two Rics in England, don't know if that's true, but they were certainly the first well known proponents of that guitar- like tone.

The guy from the Kinks had the first Ric in England.

 

[Pauly 4001]

You absolutely can play in the pocket with a busy drummer.
My drummer is like Moon. Sometimes I hang with him and play busy but sometimes I Just play in the pocket.
It can be a challenge keeping site of the One.

Anyone who wants to criticize John Entwistle better be rock solid or just keep it to yourself. Sometimes if feels like you're hanging on for dear life with those types of drummers. It sure as hell ain't for the faint of heart.

IMO the OP is just a Troll post.

Moon was incapable of playing certain types of beats and was known for dropping the beat or switching it accidentally so part of what Entwistle was doing was anchoring the beat and or re-establishing the beat.
Look:
someone's putting out a biography of him:
'The Ox': New Book Reveals the Secret Life of Who Bassist John Entwistle

 

[mikewalker]

... When I look at his playing now I often feel like he is highly overrated in comparison to how bassist have evolved over the past half century. ...

um... Just for perspective

FIRST GOLD RECORD Released: 3 December 1965 (UK): FIFTY-FOUR YEARS AGO

SADLY DECEASED (RIP): MORE THAN 17 YEARS AGO...

John Alec Entwistle (9 October 1944 – 27 June 2002) was an English bass guitarist, singer, songwriter, and film and music producer. In a music career that spanned more than 40 years, Entwistle was best known as the original bass guitarist for the English rock band the Who.

 

[7615]

You absolutely can play in the pocket with a busy drummer.
My drummer is like Moon. Sometimes I hang with him and play busy but sometimes I Just play in the pocket.
It can be a challenge keeping site of the One.

Anyone who wants to criticize John Entwistle better be rock solid or just keep it to yourself. Sometimes if feels like you're hanging on for dear life with those types of drummers. It sure as hell ain't for the faint of heart.

IMO the OP is just a Troll post.

It is possible to play with a lead/busy drummer but due to the style of a rabbit foot bass drum and unpredictable rolls - the bassist must be able to adjust in a flash. Also means that locking in is often not possible - also low notes often will collide with the bass drum so playing up the neck avoids those conflicts.

The OP never considered who Entwistle was playing with - the busiest drummer in rock (the Who's first single started with a drum roll - unheard of up until that point) and a guitarist who was basically a rhythm player.

The Who and Cream had musical fighting going on - not co-operation in the usual sense. But wow does it ever work - it is so aggressive and works like magic in the rock genre.

 

[Peteyboy]

He didn't run over his driver's head.

Ooof. Too soon?

 

[40Hz]

The fun need NOT stop here!!!

For your debating pleasure, I present What's so special about Larry Graham?

Slow day?

 

[diegom]

Slow day?

Just trying to spark some love for LG!!!

 

[Peteyboy]

I was holding tickets to the show they played @ the Hollywood Bowl right after John died. I ALMOST didn't go. Pino did fine, better than I ever coulda done, and I've had my whole life to sit with these songs. But what a simultaneous honor and an unenviable position for him.

 

[mb94952]

I'll never forget in the 1980's when my buddy went and saw The Who. The first question I asked was, "How was John Entwistle ?" he answered, "The dude is a machine. His right hand was a machine." I'll never forget that.

 

[Thundertips]

I'm not the biggest rock fan out there, but I can see why people like John Paul Jones, John Deacon, Geezer Butler and the likes.

I can even see why people like Cliff Burton, although I think he's seriously overrated.

But I don't understand why John Entwistle is so highly regarded here on TalkBass and in the media. I listened to The Who's top songs on Spotify and watched a few videos on YouTube. Sure, he has that sort of tapping technique and a few fills on "My Generation," but is that it? I guess he did come before Jones et al., making him a pioneer?

I'm being serious here. I'm not trolling. What am I missing?

I just noticed that tiny writing in your post says Cliff Burton is overrated. I don't think so. Have you seen that Some Kind Of Monster movie where they're auditioning new Bass players and Robert Trujillo got hired cuz he was the only one out of all those big name bass players that could play Cliff's bass lines. People don't realize how hard it is to play fast and play it right. Like if I'm listening to Slayer some people say turn that crap off, it's garbage anybody could play that. So, I say go ahead try and play it, see how far you get.