Whats the difference of woods?

[Munjibunga]

So you're telling me that the Fender AmDlx basses (ash bodies) and the Fender Victor Bailey Signature (koa top, mahognay body) should sound exactly the same right? Lol, I don't think so.

Very good point. I've played both, and the sound is significantly different between the two basses. Also, I have two Sadowsky Modern 5-24s, one is koa on mahogany, and the other is alder. The koa/mahogany one is much more agressive sounding than the alder, which is mellower and warmer in tone. Both have maple necks with ebony fretboards.

 

[johnk_10]

....................I have two Sadowsky Modern 5-24s, one is koa on mahogany, and the other is alder. The koa/mahogany one is much more agressive sounding than the alder, which is mellower and warmer in tone....

which is exactly as it should be. thanks for your observations and input Munji.

 

[Schlyder]

Doesn't the finish also effect the tone?

 

[Dark Horse]

Some interesting research that shows that the shape of a electric guitar body affects the resonant frequency of the guitar -


[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


If the "shape" of the body affects the sound of the guitar, so must the "composition" of the body.

 

[Aspidites]

Some interesting research that shows that the shape of a electric guitar body affects the resonant frequency of the guitar -


[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


If the "shape" of the body affects the sound of the guitar, so must the "composition" of the body.

This looks very intriguing, thanks for the links. Obviously I am not going to get much work done tonight.

 

[zulujack]

Doesn't the finish also effect the tone?

It certainly does. And that is why I tend to stay away from 2-pac type finishes when painting bass bodies and necks.

Another thing to consider is that the size and shape of the neck as well as reinforcing and wood used probably make more of a difference to the sound of a bass than the body. This effect is more pronounced in a bass that an electric guitar as more of the neck vibrates/resonates than the body. Also bridge placement comes into play.

 

[Dark Horse]

This looks very intriguing, thanks for the links. Obviously I am not going to get much work done tonight.

No problem. I found it to be interesting research. Vibrational Mode Analysis on electric guitars hadn't been done prior to Kettering AFAIK, and I believe it is just about the only scientific paper studying the bodies affect on resonant frequency.

Particularly interesting quote from one of the papers -

The asymmetric shape and the "wings" of the Explorer contribute to more motion of this guitar body. The frequencies of these modes may be problematic because several of them are very close to string frequencies. We will be measuring the input mechanical impedance at the bridge to determine how much string energy is lost to vibration of the body. This is bad, because if the body vibrates the strings cannot sustain as long as they should.

-

 

[Dark Horse]

It's 3:30am - I've gotta try to get some sleep. Have a good night everyone.

 

[johnk_10]

good and valid points (and links) to all of the above, regarding body/ neck size, shape and finish effect on tone.

fortunately, i don't need visual lab test data to know that all of these acoustical ingredients factor into what makes a bass sound the way that it does, but it's cool to read nontheless.

IMO, here's another fun link to try, to test your ears.

Invalid Link Removed

i took the challenge just using my computer speakers and i scored a 9 out of 10 on it and have a strong feeling about the one that i missed).

 

[mongo2]

Now, here's a test I'd like to see, and it would be pretty easy:

Record and compare the sound of a bass pickup mounted in the bass, then unbolt it from the body, slide it out from under the strings and hand-hold it OVER the top of the strings, (the same distance away) and compare the sounds.

With the pickups totally de-coupled from the body, I wonder what the differences might be, if any? The STRINGS are still subject to the resonances of the wood....so it might not do squat, but I still wonder. After all, some basses (and guitars) pickups bolt directly to the wood body, some are suspended in pickguards or pickup rings.

Inquiring minds want to know!

I've held the pickups above the strings prior to cutting pickup cavities to get an idea of how a body/neck/bridge/string combination might respond to different pickup locations but I've never recorded it. I can hear the positional differences but never really bothered doing an in/out of body check.

 

[mongo2]

IMO, either aspidites doesn't have the ears to hear the difference, has no hands-on experience with the subject, or is just plain unwilling to learn.

Agreed.

I bridge both worlds having done instrument work for over a decade before returning to school for a BSEE and starting a parallel career in that field. I can see both sides and realize that there are demonstrable effects that really require no data to recognize as long as the one listening has the ability and experience to hear it and recognize it for what it is.

I suppose it's like beer and wine tasting, some are more sensitive to the differences and can make specific judgements without specific scientific data, some don't have the sophisticated palate or experience to make judgements but can tase the differences and the nuances of the differences between wines/beers may escape some.

 

[BananaKing]

You might want to perform a public service and email Mike Tobias, Roger Sadowsky, Keith Roscoe, etc. and set these poor deluded saps straight.

I HAVE to sig this.....

 

[humble1]

The bridge and the nut are where the strings come into contact with the guitar. What type of glue was used to hold the nut on? What metal is the bridge? How humid is it? Is it cold outside (ie. below freezing). These things effect how the strings vibrate. The wood plays no noticeable difference.

Umm..... yeah. Sure. So, why don't you make your next bass out of plywood, and see what happens? Go ahead, let me know how it works out.

btw, if your neck warps when it's cold outside, that kind of makes the bass unusable, doesn't it? Just sayin'....

 

[BananaKing]

I think that the only real, qualitative way to settle this for both sides completely (or as much as possible) would be to get a recording studio set up with 3 or 4 high quality configurations and do both a DI and a Mic'd version of Dark Horse's Test. Record the results and print them out in a variety of charts that show any amount of information required by either side.

Then, re-do the test in a few different locations to eliminate any signs of environmental "Tampering". Maybe do it on different days as well.

You would have to do this with both sides present, video-recording, and a WIDE set of samples (Electronics, Woods, Necks, Strings, etc......).

Other than that, we'll have to go by experience.....

(I personally believe that the wood has a fair bit of impact on the tone).

 

[mongo2]

I think that the only real, qualitative way to settle this for both sides completely (or as much as possible) would be to get a recording studio set up with 3 or 4 high quality configurations and do both a DI and a Mic'd version of Dark Horse's Test. Record the results and print them out in a variety of charts that show any amount of information required by either side.

Then, re-do the test in a few different locations to eliminate any signs of environmental "Tampering". Maybe do it on different days as well.

You would have to do this with both sides present, video-recording, and a WIDE set of samples (Electronics, Woods, Necks, Strings, etc......).

Other than that, we'll have to go by experience.....

(I personally believe that the wood has a fair bit of impact on the tone).

Even with all that, if someone can't hear the difference, no amount of samples demonstrating the point will help.

 

[Sijjvra]

All the evidence I need is listening to the bass when not plugged in. My old SR300 made of agathis (which I can't stand, tonally) sounds very bright but has no fullness at all to the tone.

My alder MIM P-bass resonates much longer and has a throatier tone by far.

And my Brice 5'er is made of light ash, and THAT one has a very distinct, bright-but-full tone.

Of course strings also have to do with it, BUT my SR300 and my Brice both have EB strings on them. They are both 35' scale, too. (The P-bass has flats, and is 34' of course)

Does wood make a difference tonally? I'd have to say yes, it does. There's no way those basses sound remotely alike when played "acoustically" without an amp.

 

[dougjwray]

All the evidence I need is listening to the bass when not plugged in. My old SR300 made of agathis (which I can't stand, tonally) sounds very bright but has no fullness at all to the tone.

My alder MIM P-bass resonates much longer and has a throatier tone by far.

And my Brice 5'er is made of light ash, and THAT one has a very distinct, bright-but-full tone.

Of course strings also have to do with it, BUT my SR300 and my Brice both have EB strings on them. They are both 35' scale, too. (The P-bass has flats, and is 34' of course)

Does wood make a difference tonally? I'd have to say yes, it does. There's no way those basses sound remotely alike when played "acoustically" without an amp.

I think you're 100% right.
Aspidites would argue that once a bass is plugged in, the acoustic qualities of the wood don't figure into it because the body is isolated from the pickups' magnetic field. (Did I get that right?)
I maintain that the way the strings vibrate through the magnetic field is absolutely affected by the characteristics of the body. Who's with me on that? Lemme hear ya!

 

[peterpalmieri]

Let me be clear in my opinion. Let's assume that most people I disagree with are correct. The wood has little to do with the tone and it's all about the strings, pickups and preamp. Let's also assume for a moment that this does in fact make up 95% of the tone of a bass.

That last 5% makes a significant difference to me and is what can make a bass great or not so great. I've had a number of different basses over the years that were "95% similar"; same electronics, same pickups, same strings. One was ash/maple the other alder rosewood (in most cases), the difference tonally to me was enough of a preference to like one over the other.

I do not want or need scientific evidence to prove this to me nor do I feel obligated to provide this data to others that have not had the opportunity to have this real world experience.

Wood matters to me, it may not matter to you and that is totally fine just don't go around telling people it shouldn't matter to anyone.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yep, it would sound EXACTLY like a concrete and steel bass........

 

[Eminor3rd]

The sound comes from the strings/pickups. Screw some strings into a concrete floor, tie them to a metal railing, hold a pickup in the right position and it sounds like a bass.

If it was an acoustic bass then the wood would matter. Maple/oak/cherry/birch..... hard woods resonate better.

LOL

EDIT: I used to think that too, when I first picked up a bass at 16. Then I went out and actually started PLAYING a bunch of basses. Good luck even finding two Jazz basses made of the SAME wood that sound alike.

When I was a teenager, I played in a punk band, and I had an Ibanez bass. I wanted that throaty, punchy, angry tone that I heard when I played the Mark Hoppus bass. So, naturally, I bought a SD SPB-3 pickup and put it in my Ibanez. Guess what? They sounded NOTHING alike. Completely different. In fact, I didn't even like it (but left it in anyway).

Every different timbre (read: tone) that you hear is a result of varying degrees of volume among parts of the harmonic series. When you hit the string, the entire body vibrates, and the vibration of the body then affects the vibration of the string, and back and forth until they reach an equilibrium. The timbral tendencies of each (and those of every other part of the bass) blend to reproduce a unique tone. Yes, the vibration of the string is what the pickup ultimately reads, but the vibration of the string is affected by all of the other components of the instrument.