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What's the problem with jeff berlin?
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I took the quote from his page. The bolding was there. I just copied and pasted.
Are We talking About the Man or His Method? While his delivery may be inflammatory at times, I Think something can be learned from him as an Educator and we should all view it this way. arguably Some of the greatest Musicians have Quirks in there persona, but for that matter so do most human beings.
While I agree, his playing on Norah's clips suggests, at least on some level, that he's a horrific educator
im not really talking about generally sloppy timiing, but more of a tendency to always be on top of the beat. you can have a lot notes in a line and have a feel thats laying back. id like to have my students that can actually play be able to do both. i think having an authentic feel for the music youre playing, whether its punk rock or RandB, is extremely important.Hmm, I've seen this before! Have you suggested he switch over to Guitar? Just kidding
I think early on, a metronome can be helpful but playing in time I feel is a skill that a person either has or doesn't have.
I know drummers, bassists, and guitar players who I've played with on and off for 30 years that still to this day have timing issues. Would that stop me from gigging with them? No, but you learn to adapt to their timing quirks. I don't enjoy playing with a drummer who has sloppy meter as I have to carry the rhythm section but I've done it many times and will probably do it again before I decide to hang it up for good.
Basically my point is that although the metronome can be a useful tool, it's just that "a tool". IMO there's nothing that will improve your ability and timing better than playing live with other musicians. Players aren't perfect, everyone is different and it makes you a better player because you learn to adapt.
As far as laying back.... In over 30 years of playing bass I've learned one thing. Less notes equals MORE steady gigs and MORE pay. That's what's worked for me. Maybe that doesn't get me into the spotlight, but it gets me steady work and pay. Besides the bright lights hurt my eyes.
if you have a genuine concern or love for what youre teaching, why the inflammatory delivery? the majority of people dont want to put up with that. people shouldnt need to have their hand held, but if you really want to make people better musicians, dont insult them.
You can't really judge a guy's 30+ career on a couple of myspace noodles, can you?
I agree 100% with you. in a perfect world this would not occur. but unfortunately Reality teaches us that Human Beings have personailitys. All of us do, not just Jeff Berlin. At times we can be Cruel or Even inhumane to each other, but at the End of the Day we are all responsible for our own actions and we reap the benefit of these actions on personal, professional, and many other levels. I am simply stating for the hear and now, If jeff Berlin Offends you, Please differentiate between the Man and the Method. If you don't, you may be cutting yourself off from an incredible musician. If you cannot get by the Persona, i can understand that to.
I think the fact that he has 30+ years of experience, and still posts that stuff speaks volumes.
im not personally offended, but i know many are by him. looking at him with my psych degree i dont use
, he seems like a very dissatisfied person. he aint gettn' calls because i havent seen him on anyone's albums for years. so, he does this stuff to have himself talked about, but it only serves to continue the cycle of him not getting calls which leads to his dissatisfaction. being that he his an amazing player, and im sure a great educator, he should be thought of in that light and not as an "arrogant toolbag" to quote someone else. but, he only brings that on himself and its a shame.
I was a guitar major at a school Jeff taught at and later go make friends with bass students and teachers who had dealt with Jeff for years. In general Jeff is a nice guy, but has real strong opinions and attitudes on certain topics. You decide you either ignore it and avoid talking about those things. Some with their own opinions just decide to keep their distance. Kind of like life in general.
The one think that I found interesting coming from people is Jeff Berlin holds back on what he will tell you about music. Even getting to know him some stuff he doesn't answer. Which if you have played long enough you know is a stupid attitude. A great player could tell you everything they know and you will never play like them, you have to find your own soul, but people do develop their sound from trying others ideas. The impression others got was Jeff deep down still feels insecure about his playing. Which a lot of insecure people use boldness as a shield.
Bottom line Jeff is a great player. He has an attitude and you either accept it or keep your distance. Now that he has a school he has mellowed don't want to tick off paying customers too much. So deal with Jeff how it makes you feel comfortable. I listen to his CDs and enjoy and cop ideas.
The one think that I found interesting coming from people is Jeff Berlin holds back on what he will tell you about music. Even getting to know him some stuff he doesn't answer. Which if you have played long enough you know is a stupid attitude. A great player could tell you everything they know and you will never play like them, you have to find your own soul, but people do develop their sound from trying others ideas. The impression others got was Jeff deep down still feels insecure about his playing. Which a lot of insecure people use boldness as a shield.
Bottom line Jeff is a great player. He has an attitude and you either accept it or keep your distance. Now that he has a school he has mellowed don't want to tick off paying customers too much. So deal with Jeff how it makes you feel comfortable. I listen to his CDs and enjoy and cop ideas.
I can't speak to Jeff's personality, having heard him speak only once at a Bass Day event here in New York. But I have frequently read his former column in Bass Player magazine, plus occasional published interviews with Jeff. And all things considered, I find very little with which I could disagree.
The guy's criticisms of musical crutches like tabulature, those goofy "You Too Can Develop Perfect Pitch" courses advertised in the music magazines, and other assorted forms of instructional snake oil are right on the mark.
Music is music, and a well-rounded musician will be able to read, transcribe and understand theory, as well as be able to improvise, learn/play by ear, know how to create a part that is appropriate to a particular genre, and yes, groove - regardless of which instrument(s) he plays. Again, leaving aside the issue of whether or not one likes him personally, Jeff is pretty much telling it like it is.
One may call that "old school". I call it the truth...
MM
The guy's criticisms of musical crutches like tabulature, those goofy "You Too Can Develop Perfect Pitch" courses advertised in the music magazines, and other assorted forms of instructional snake oil are right on the mark.
Music is music, and a well-rounded musician will be able to read, transcribe and understand theory, as well as be able to improvise, learn/play by ear, know how to create a part that is appropriate to a particular genre, and yes, groove - regardless of which instrument(s) he plays. Again, leaving aside the issue of whether or not one likes him personally, Jeff is pretty much telling it like it is.
One may call that "old school". I call it the truth...
MM
I can't speak to Jeff's personality, having heard him speak only once at a Bass Day event here in New York. But I have frequently read his former column in Bass Player magazine, plus occasional published interviews with Jeff. And all things considered, I find very little with which I could disagree.
The guy's criticisms of musical crutches like tabulature, those goofy "You Too Can Develop Perfect Pitch" courses advertised in the music magazines, and other assorted forms of instructional snake oil are right on the mark.
Music is music, and a well-rounded musician will be able to read, transcribe and understand theory, as well as be able to improvise, learn/play by ear, know how to create a part that is appropriate to a particular genre, and yes, groove - regardless of which instrument(s) he plays. Again, leaving aside the issue of whether or not one likes him personally, Jeff is pretty much telling it like it is.
One may call that "old school". I call it the truth...
MM
to me a great educator makes me want to listen and embrace the truth. jeff seems more concerned with being right on a subject than actually creating better musicians.
There's no such thing as bad publicity. The comment on Victor Wooten's site is like an ad for Jeff's school. I think that JB's abrasive, opinionated communication style is showmanship designed to generate controversy. I own his old intructional video where the wrestler Rowdy Roddy Piper makes a lengthy appearance. Not a very good instructional video in light of what he is attributed to say on Victor Wooten's site. It seems that JB's music school is of a higher calibre than his old instructional video.
JB came to Winnipeg to do a bass clinic in 1995 and charged $10/person fee for a crowd of 30-40. He played a little but mostly stressed a number of good practice habits and told entertaining stories. Alot of the stories were about mistakes that he had made and how he had learned from them.
One story was about being hired by YES to replace Chris Squire who was playing with ABWH. He said that he was used to playing small jazz gigs and playing for a crowd of 40000 scared the hell out of him. He said he couldn't hear anything on stage and on one show of the tour he accidently unplugged his cord from the tuner pedal and missed the first 20 seconds of roundabout.
The comment about JB saying that Jaco did not improvise is something that I have read in a Marcus Miller interview as well. MM said that Jaco's solos were always the same live from gig to gig with little variation or improvisation. I know that some jazz musicians would view this in a negative light but it also shows that Jaco was consistent and proud of the solos that he had recorded.
JB came to Winnipeg to do a bass clinic in 1995 and charged $10/person fee for a crowd of 30-40. He played a little but mostly stressed a number of good practice habits and told entertaining stories. Alot of the stories were about mistakes that he had made and how he had learned from them.
One story was about being hired by YES to replace Chris Squire who was playing with ABWH. He said that he was used to playing small jazz gigs and playing for a crowd of 40000 scared the hell out of him. He said he couldn't hear anything on stage and on one show of the tour he accidently unplugged his cord from the tuner pedal and missed the first 20 seconds of roundabout.
The comment about JB saying that Jaco did not improvise is something that I have read in a Marcus Miller interview as well. MM said that Jaco's solos were always the same live from gig to gig with little variation or improvisation. I know that some jazz musicians would view this in a negative light but it also shows that Jaco was consistent and proud of the solos that he had recorded.
Got It! I see where you're coming from now.
I have to admit that the best drummers I've played with over the years all have one thing in common. They all played just slightly ahead of the beat. Some would also call it on top of the beat. Not so much that it would throw you off though.
It's hard to describe exactly. You "feel" it more than notice it. I'll call it "anticipation" for lack of a better description. They all have a sense of what's ahead and go there instinctively. They seem to "get under" the tune and push it without rushing it instead of just playing along.
You get into a nice groove with them because you know they will always be there. If you expand a new part during a song, they know where it falls in musically and timing wise and are all over it the next time around. If you don't do the part the next time around, the better ones will ask you after the tune "hey why didn't you do that thing again during the verse? I was ready for it."
Maybe your student is one of those players that has a natural feel for anticipating what they play but just hasn't got the knack of controlling it and using it to their advantage yet? If true and they learn to control and use that, it's a beautiful thing.
If anybody else wants to chime in as exactly how to describe this rare occurance when you really get into the groove with a drummer, give a shot, but we should probably move it to a new topic so as to not drag this one off track.
You answered your own question, basically, and actually very well for a lot of us. I would augment that a little further by adding that he seems to have severe multiple personality issues. It seems like for most of the time, like 80% (at least) he seems to come off as a real jerk, and maybe 20% of the time he does something nice for someone, or just doesn't come off as a flat-out jerk. In my opinion, that 20% is an abberation and does not define character.
There are some incredibly talented AND genuinely nice guys out there. Thirty years ago or more, Mr. Berlin was in a very rare group of technically brilliant bassists that made you go "wow" everytime they picked up a bass. That's no longer true. There are now tons of them. And thankfully so. The bar is raised. Victor Wooten immediately comes to mind as incredibly talented AND nice, and so, IMO, there is simply no excuse to be good but to think you should be able to get away with being a jerk any longer.
I am sorry his son had cancer. I wouldn't wish that on my worst of enemies. I also think he's (still) a tremendous player. I have CDs with him playing on them. I'm not totally anti-Mr. Berlin. But with all the other great bassists out there who are also really cool and nice to boot, I have an increasingly hard time supporting Mr. Berlin in any way other than to begrudgingly acknowledge his brilliance/greatness as a bassist, leaving every other measure of a person out of the picture.
Do your own research and reading. You'll figure it out.
Best to you.
Like , or dislike what he does or says.
At least J.B has opinions and is willing to stand by them.
egardless if "right " or "wrong", he is entitled to his opinions just as much as anyone. So what's the problem?
At least J.B has opinions and is willing to stand by them.
egardless if "right " or "wrong", he is entitled to his opinions just as much as anyone. So what's the problem?
As someone who was there (at a very young age, but I still paid attention), nobody on earth was playing guitar like Hendrix before Hendrix. Not even Jeff Beck or Clapton. And Terry Kath came well after Hendrix. Jeff Beck and Clapton were the standard bearers at the time, but none of them played like Hendrix, and both of them did some of their best work shortly after Hendrix came along.
