But,....by the time 2025 rolls around there will have been 1000 different 'limited editions' to choose from.
....That's about when the marketing term 'limited edition' will have lost it's magic.
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When is a guitar vintage? And when does the value increase?
- Thread starter Axxis
- Start date
But,....by the time 2025 rolls around there will have been 1000 different 'limited editions' to choose from.
....That's about when the marketing term 'limited edition' will have lost it's magic.
My personal take is that vintage can honestly be a personal and bass-to-bass thing. My Gibson G-3's I consider vintage no matter what the year because of when they were made, how many were made, and how long they were made. My opinion of vintage when it comes to the P-Bass, however, are Pre-CBS. I think more in terms of how close to the original model it is. Take the P-Bass for example, you have the first generation tele style, then when they stuck the split pickup, then the change in body style. All that business that happened before CBS screwed Fender over for a while is vintage to me, but even 80s instruments are all so similar in appearance and features that the beauty just isn't as prevalent. Yes there are gems but I don't think you can take a line of instruments, pick a year, and say, okay, every single one of these produced by this company in this line is vintage. For example, 25 years from now, could you see all of the present's PBasses called vintage, including the modern player series, blacktop, etc? (Then there is Squier Affinity........) Still, I think vintage depends on the value of the instrument in relation to others ignoring the year in consideration 
Alan Ace Cooper said:
Not to derail the thread but I am honestly not that impressed with some rays and sterlings I have seen at gc, the wood choices are very bland and I feel like my 03 Stingray was way better in terms of feel.
Americana refers to artifacts, or a collection of artifacts, related to the history, geography, folklore and cultural heritage of the United States.[1][2] Many kinds of material fall within the definition of Americana: paintings, prints and drawings; license plates or entire vehicles, household objects, tools and weapons; plaques and statues, and so on. Patriotism and nostalgia play a defining role in the subject. The things involved need not be old, but need to have the appropriate associations. The term may be used to describe the theme of a museum or collection,[3][4] or of goods for sale.[5]
The term can be used to describe studies of American culture - especially studies based in other countries.[6] Americana music loosely encompasses American folk music and related genres.
Fender from the 1950's - 1970's were 'Americana'.
There are no iconic guitar companies that can be described as such anymore.
It is a strong factor in the values associated with those guitars, and will always be.
The term can be used to describe studies of American culture - especially studies based in other countries.[6] Americana music loosely encompasses American folk music and related genres.
Fender from the 1950's - 1970's were 'Americana'.
There are no iconic guitar companies that can be described as such anymore.
It is a strong factor in the values associated with those guitars, and will always be.
Got any '65 -'79 Fender basses you want to get rid of?....I'll give you an awesome new Rogue bass for one.
It'll be vintage in about 25+ years, just keep it extremely well maintained. I'm assuming that's the 2008 with all the upgrades made that year? It's a little famous on these forums and will age well. It's difficult for one to project something they have now that's relatively new as vintage in the future, but that's the whole point. People get rid of these things, trade them off, don't treat them well, have the stolen and broken down for parts, and then we're left with a much smaller market and when we're all old here we'll be like, oh, does anyone have a 2008-9 MIA jazz, I loved those things, and you'll say, yes, I have one, and it's $7500.
+1 I think Roger has the correct answer here OP. There were some signficant changes in the development on the early guitars and basses which makes owning something from that era more valuable. If it's a Fender it's a little piece of the history of that company and the development of the electric solid body guitar and bass.
Things deteriorated in the 70's as did most American manufacture whether it was musical equipment or autos. The looks changed but quality declined and prices soared. Things improved during the 80's and the styles and needs of players changed. Imports entered the market and US manufacturers began to make reissues of their classic instruments from an earlier era many of them equal to or superior to the originals.
To me much of what you can buy now equals or exceeds the quality of those early instruments but nothing will replace the value inherrent in something that can only be reissued but never replaced as far as it's sentimental or collectors value is concerned.
There are only so many original 51 Nocaster that were built and fewer today remain stock as they were made so rarity drives up the prices. I've never played one so I can't say for sure but I'd be willing to bet my 51 CS version probably plays better than an original but since there are far more of them around, and probably always will be I'm not expecting it to be worth what an original 51 is worth today 50 years from now.
I think the real era of true vintage instruments has passed and while some of today's pieces might achieve higher value I don't believe it will be due to the same factors that brought that about with their originals. That's my take on it.
I agree with the poster who doesn't advise instruments as potential investments.
Apart from guessing future tastes (which is nearly impossible), you also have to take inflation into account. That is, if you bought an instrument in 1961 for $400 in 1961, you'd need to be getting at least $3K for it now to be worth it as an investment. (i.e. just to keep pace w/inflation. I'm using $CDN here, because that's where I live - use the appropriate calc for where you live, of course.)
Some Fenders/Gibsons/Rics/whatevers did this, many instruments did not.
As for vintage being over 25 years - oh man, *I* am so vintage, I'm going to part myself out on e-bay!
GT
Apart from guessing future tastes (which is nearly impossible), you also have to take inflation into account. That is, if you bought an instrument in 1961 for $400 in 1961, you'd need to be getting at least $3K for it now to be worth it as an investment. (i.e. just to keep pace w/inflation. I'm using $CDN here, because that's where I live - use the appropriate calc for where you live, of course.)
Some Fenders/Gibsons/Rics/whatevers did this, many instruments did not.
As for vintage being over 25 years - oh man, *I* am so vintage, I'm going to part myself out on e-bay!
GT
A lot of factors contribute to the demand and in turn, the price of 70's CBS Fenders. Old dogs don't pass on the knowledge to the next generation so the noobs think the 70's Fenders are just as good and more affordable than the 60's. Some guys might just want an "old vintage Fender" and if it plays alright and sounds alright, it's alright. Some like the mojo and the look. And you can't get around the fact that "they aren't making anymore 1970's Fenders" and they certainly didn't build in as much volume as they did in the 80's and 90's.
As for Taylor, as far as I know they've always been considered a "Sadowsky" of acoustic guitars - meaning they took an old tried and true concept and improved upon it. I love the sound of mine and it's held up extremely well since 1997.
The best thing that Fender did in the 70s. Was give us Wickersham, Thompson, Smith, Spector, Steinberger, Sadowski, Tobias, and all. Giving a whole host of artists a platform to provide a viable business model and acceptance of truly wonderful instruments.
You're probably right too. But I still look at an old Fender and think "man that's neat". I'm not the only one.
I stopped in to a "Vintage" guitar shop in Madison, IN. There were indeed a great many ancient guitars in there. And the sad thing was, they LOOKED ancient. My overall impression, standing there amidst a sea of flecked, checked, nicked, and faded Gibson SGs, Fender Strats, a few 1970's Jazz basses, a couple of Danelectros, and one or two actual guitars in decent condition, I felt like I was at a driftwood store. That was what all of those OLD guitars looked like lined up next to each other.
Yes, I'm sure some collector would pay a lot of money for those instruments. But honestly I didn't see an actual guitar or bass player plopping down $2-5,000 for a stripped hulk of a Jazz bass that had been re-done with primer paint. These guitars looked like crap. I talked with the kid who was working there, and he yakked my ear off for almost 45 minutes he was so starved for conversation. This told me not a lot of people actually went through the shop, and the fact that I actually knew anything at all about the guitars told me that most of the people he talked to saw dollar signs, not musical instruments.
The fad will pass. There are still some true vintage treasures out there. I have my 1973 Rickenbacker 4001. It's the real deal and it sounds great and actually looks good, in spite of the abuse it was dealt before I got hold of it. But I don't have any intention of selling it and I don't care how much it is worth to the rest of the world -- to me it is my long-time companion and my best sound. I bought it from a pawn shop for $650 in 1987. Eventually the parasite collectors will get bored, or lose "confidence" and suddenly us real players will have access to some good stuff for a little bit, and unfortunately a lot of it will likely end up on a trash heap because it won't have any value anymore. And then some other forum will be talking about vintage Beanie Babies or some similar utter nonsense.
Yes, I'm sure some collector would pay a lot of money for those instruments. But honestly I didn't see an actual guitar or bass player plopping down $2-5,000 for a stripped hulk of a Jazz bass that had been re-done with primer paint. These guitars looked like crap. I talked with the kid who was working there, and he yakked my ear off for almost 45 minutes he was so starved for conversation. This told me not a lot of people actually went through the shop, and the fact that I actually knew anything at all about the guitars told me that most of the people he talked to saw dollar signs, not musical instruments.
The fad will pass. There are still some true vintage treasures out there. I have my 1973 Rickenbacker 4001. It's the real deal and it sounds great and actually looks good, in spite of the abuse it was dealt before I got hold of it. But I don't have any intention of selling it and I don't care how much it is worth to the rest of the world -- to me it is my long-time companion and my best sound. I bought it from a pawn shop for $650 in 1987. Eventually the parasite collectors will get bored, or lose "confidence" and suddenly us real players will have access to some good stuff for a little bit, and unfortunately a lot of it will likely end up on a trash heap because it won't have any value anymore. And then some other forum will be talking about vintage Beanie Babies or some similar utter nonsense.
You need to understand. In the 70s and 80s there were three types of instruments..
New, that nobody would buy. They sucked, and were a lot of money.
Used, that everybody bought..
And then "Vintage" generally this meant pre-cbs Fender or 60s gibsons. These were what everybody wanted but few could afford.
Music stores would go so far as to make instruments look used or more used in order to sell them. looking "too new" was a huge turn off to many.
It really wasn't until the late 80s and New Wavers, suit jackets, thin ties that people actually wanted instruments to look clean and new again..
It is not surprising that most any 70s era instrument will show a LOT of wear.
I do. I was there -- I bought my Ric in 1987 at a pawn shop for $600. I'm certainly not a kid anymore. In fact, all of my guitars except my Hondo were pawn shop acquisitions up until I bought a Spector brand new in 2000.
I'm just telling you, these "vintage" guitars weren't the kind of thing that a real player would actually want. It wasn't that they looked a little nicked or faded. They looked like they'd been floating in the ocean for a couple of decades. The point I'm trying to make is these things were of value ONLY to people who collect them for dollar signs. As instruments, most of them were unplayable. There were one or two gems locked in glass cases. Everything else could have floated in from the Ohio river right up to the door of the store. That's how ****** they looked. My Rickenbacker was older than the majority of these so-called "vintage" instruments, and it is really, actually, a vintage instrument that people would want to play. These things didn't look merely road-worn. They looked ruined.
I guess the point of my comment is that I feel the "vintage" guitar fad has reached its peak with utter shite being re-marketed as "vintage" and just based on prior experience, once we've reached maximum absurdity that means the fad is at its end. Maybe a year from now, maybe 2-3 years from now, all of that supposedly "vintage" equipment will revert to being "crap" except for the stuff that is both old AND good. And then all of the parasites who have attached themselves to the musical instrument market will start getting out and leave it to us real musicians again.
I used to be really enthusiastic about the "vintage" market, about 15-20 years ago, maybe. It was fun, and you could buy and sell cool old instruments and make a little money if you were knowledgeable.
But, then things went completely nuts. I went to the vintage guitar shows at Orange County, CA, Long Beach, DelMar, and several others for years, but the asking prices got to be preposterous, if listed at all. About the same time, Vintage Guitar magazine's ads began a disturbing trend of listing almost everything with a "Call for price" instead of a real price. It's like everybody was only looking for a sucker.
When 70's guitars started being considered "vintage" pieces (gray-bottom pickups, anyone?), I knew that the trend had completely jumped the shark. I kept my 1956 P, sold almost everything else that might be considered "vintage" and just shook my head and walked away.
It's just laughable. It's divorced from reality anymore.
But, then things went completely nuts. I went to the vintage guitar shows at Orange County, CA, Long Beach, DelMar, and several others for years, but the asking prices got to be preposterous, if listed at all. About the same time, Vintage Guitar magazine's ads began a disturbing trend of listing almost everything with a "Call for price" instead of a real price. It's like everybody was only looking for a sucker.
When 70's guitars started being considered "vintage" pieces (gray-bottom pickups, anyone?), I knew that the trend had completely jumped the shark. I kept my 1956 P, sold almost everything else that might be considered "vintage" and just shook my head and walked away.
It's just laughable. It's divorced from reality anymore.
Sorry to derail back to page 1 but...
I deal (due to my line of work) with a lot of custom/professional/expensive companies (not in the instrument world, but audio none the less) and I must say that this is something none of them would admit (and I don´t mean the joint part!!).
I´m afraid that I don´t see myself spending a large ammount of money on basses (unless I win the lottery) as it is not a means of income, but if I ever have the spare cash, Sadowsky will be the first port of call!! (I have never had the pleasure of trying one, but I currently play a Squier!!
).Seriously, I wish more companies were so down to earth about the things they do!
Robert, if you ever come this way (Spain) I´ll roll it for you!!
The amazing thing is that the 70's Fenders have kept going up and at least maintaining their price for years - all while being universally condemned with no mega-corporate ad campaigns touting them!
And yes, the prices were relatively high for a Fender in the 70's,....maybe it had something to do with them not being built by 'slave labor'.
Congratulations for supporting that and enjoying your modern-day price breaks.
And why all the 70's Fender bashing all the time? Because that energy is fervent and very negative. What's to gain from doing so? So what if the price goes up on them - you'll never want one anyway!
And if vintage buyers used their money for modern guitars you esteem highly - those guitars would only go up in price - costing you more! Leave the vintage market alone - it's not driven by dummies as you might want to think.
I don't understand people who pay lots of money on old 'Star-Wars' action figures, but I don't feel the need to bash and insult their intelligence.
Having money go into vintage guitars just makes your preferred guitar company have to work harder for the available cash out there, which is a good thing.
Meanwhile, even Fender puts out guitars that honor 70's models. Paying homage to 'so-called' crappy guitars? Seems to me that they've actually contributed to the vintage craze.
And why isn't Fender mentioning in their ads that their reissues are much better than having the original, as I keep hearing from the public? Wouldn't that benefit them?
And yes, the prices were relatively high for a Fender in the 70's,....maybe it had something to do with them not being built by 'slave labor'.
Congratulations for supporting that and enjoying your modern-day price breaks.
And why all the 70's Fender bashing all the time? Because that energy is fervent and very negative. What's to gain from doing so? So what if the price goes up on them - you'll never want one anyway!
And if vintage buyers used their money for modern guitars you esteem highly - those guitars would only go up in price - costing you more! Leave the vintage market alone - it's not driven by dummies as you might want to think.
I don't understand people who pay lots of money on old 'Star-Wars' action figures, but I don't feel the need to bash and insult their intelligence.
Having money go into vintage guitars just makes your preferred guitar company have to work harder for the available cash out there, which is a good thing.
Meanwhile, even Fender puts out guitars that honor 70's models. Paying homage to 'so-called' crappy guitars? Seems to me that they've actually contributed to the vintage craze.
And why isn't Fender mentioning in their ads that their reissues are much better than having the original, as I keep hearing from the public? Wouldn't that benefit them?
