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...when is enough...enough?

H

(hed)-less

Aug 5, 2001
127
0
40
Northern England
www.myspace.com
#1
I've just walked into the world of rack equipment and I'm trying to keep the amount of stuff I need to a bare minimum.

Right now I have a SWR 4004 head (not rack mounted, comes in its own carpet case) and I am pretty pleased with it so I dont want to ditch it. I have however just bought a Alesis 3630 compressor, a ART Powerstation (power conditioner/light rig), a nice Korg rack tuner, and I've bought a handy rack drawer and I've mounted my wireless into my new rack too. I was just thinking though I'm happy with all my new gizmos, I'm still feeling theres something missing. I however dont want to ditch my currant amp (which is solid state and both pre and power amp combined) or my bass. I was looking at both the BBE sonic maximizer and the Aphex 204 Aural Exciter- but I wasnt sure if this would be over kill or not? There is an aural enhancer built into the bass head but surely a stand alone one would do the job much better? I was also looking at the Tech 21 sansamp stuff but I wasnt sure if again this would be overkill? Is the sansamp rack stuff mainly for using as a stand alone pre - amp to be used in conjunciton with a power amp - or would it still do much to affect my all-in-one head (would it be best through the effects loop?).

Is there any kind of single rack space over drive type unit that would work well with my head? Or are most devices for colouring tone out there designed to be pre-amps used for working with power amps that have no tone controls on them as such?

I'm pretty over wealmed and confused at the moment...sorry if I have posted this in the wrong place...I think the main thing I'm not sure is whether I should add a pre amp to my rig or not?

I realise theres power amps (the big massive part that gives you all the juice) and then you add a pre amp to that to add the EQ and bass input and other stuff...and I realise that there is bass heads that include power amp and pre amp (what are these called..just all-in-one heads?) like what I have...but what I was wondering was, though my head already has EQ and inputs and DI and an FX loop (which is all the stuff you would normally buy a pre amp for) - could I still buy a seperate pre amp and have it slaved to my SWR 4004 just to colour/add to my tone? Or would this be far too much and be over kill?

I know there are probably multiple answers to this question depending on how much I would like to spend etc but I would be very appreciative of any responses I get and then hopefully I can work from there :D
 
#3
ok, let me start by saying +1 to the BBE 482i.....its probably the best money ive spent on my rig yet. you can always add a pre-amp to a head, thats not a problem, but you will run into the problem of having the head "re-color" the sound coming from the preamp with the sound the head has when eq'd flat.

my 2 cents goes to say that if you want a pre amp and separate power amp go for it. its efficient and opens up more tonal possibilities

you could always try a stand alone graphic eq if you think that would suite a little more to your taste as far as finding your tone since it would give you more pinpoint control over the tone.
 
#4
It seems that these days bass players need their own personal PA for a rig.

Here's a set up I would consider to have all the functions you would need.

Pre amp of your choice to define your tone. (Thats sounds cool and cuts through)

16/32 band constant Q graphic equalizer to assure that you can make adjustments to your exsiting tone so as to compensate for room acoustics in venues

Compressors are a very useful tool.

Quality power amp with lots and lots of watts.

Tuner, be it rackmount or otherwise since I believe no one should hear you tune up on stage. (But always doing it by ear at practice and at home by yourself)

Quality DI

I think power conditioners are a waste of time. Just stick a an extension socket with surge protector in the back of the rack and plug everything in to that.

Plus a Set of speakers that can handle the full range of the basses frequencies and lots of watts

If you had all of that you could be talking upwards of 7 rack spaces. Yet each piece of equipment would serve a purpose.

All that said most pre-amps and heads will combine most if not all of the above. Is there such thing as enoughs enough? I don't think so(I think Tombowlus will back me up on this one ;)). If you got the money why not experiment a bit and see what you come up with. For example if you like everything on a head except the compressor. Then get a better compressor and stick it in. The only things that's really stopping you is storage space, money and how much gear your willing to cart around.
 
#5
I tour with a bass, a Sansamp BDDI and fresh 9v batteries. Thats enough for me.

If you like the way your rig sounds, dont add to it just because you "think" it needs something... unless you "want" a 300 lb rack full of gear you probably don't need.
 
#8
theshadow2001 said:
Scrath that.

I got one word for you. "Roadie"


:D
Click to expand...


HAHAHA, I got one word- Sansamp :D :D :D

If it didnt sound great to me, I wouldn't use it. The BDDI is not for everyone, but I dig the hell out of mine
 
#9
There really isn't anything else you need. I was happy for years with a WM4004 and a Korg tuner in the empty rack space. I've moved on to a large, complex rack set-up, but that's for my personal taste. I still enjoy the simplicity of just carrying a head, as well, and have no problem taking just a head on a gig, sans rack.
 
#10
8mmOD said:
I tour with a bass, a Sansamp BDDI and fresh 9v batteries. Thats enough for me.
Click to expand...

I really do find it amazing that you could go with so little. Even if I was a fan of a small setup. I would look into something like one of those markbass 2x10 combos. I always find it comforting to know you have your own dedicated system behind you and not to have to rely on provided back line or house PA's for what you hear on stage. Besides that sansamp only puts out a few milliwatts I prefer my amps to be in the hundreds :bassist:

Another thing with me is that I have an engineering background and I like gadgets and gizmo's and other such cool things of interest. Thats why a rack systems and lots of gear appeal to me. All that being said, my current setup is anything but complicated. But if I were to start playing out again I would definetely look into a pre/power setup.
 
#11
theshadow2001 said:
I really do find it amazing that you could go with so little. Even if I was a fan of a small setup. I would look into something like one of those markbass 2x10 combos. I always find it comforting to know you have your own dedicated system behind you and not to have to rely on provided back line or house PA's for what you hear on stage. Besides that sansamp only puts out a few milliwatts I prefer my amps to be in the hundreds :bassist:
Click to expand...

Sansamp direct into a PA = who gives a rip about a backline. But I have run mine through crappy combo's, expensive big rigs, tube amps, solid state amps, straight up power amps & PA's and I can make it sound pretty much exactly the same, every time no matter what amp it is driving.

Now OTOH, some people complain that the BDDI only has one sound, but I am very happy with the sound I get out of mine. It fits in my gig bag and I can run it off a 9v battery - that means I have power in any country, no matter what voltage is standard. Its like magic in the form of a pedal :bassist:

and oh yeah, I didnt mean to hijack this thread into a BDDI ooze fest, it just happened, sorry about that (hed)-less!!!
 
#12
8mmOD said:
Sansamp direct into a PA = who gives a rip about a backline. But I have run mine through crappy combo's, expensive big rigs, tube amps, solid state amps, straight up power amps & PA's and I can make it sound pretty much exactly the same, every time no matter what amp it is driving.
Click to expand...

I know I give a rip about a backline. I can understand where your coming from and I would agree with you that sound quality on stage isn't really a huge factor especially if your stage rig isn't going to be heard and be masked by whats coming through the PA (sansamp) and you can find your sound regardless.

But what I would care about is coming across damaged backline from missuse or underpowered backline. Not being able to hear yourself adequately was one of the problems I had at the starting point of my old band. It was frustrating as hell and something I wouldn't like to happen again. So I'd rather have a rig that I know works and will get me through a gig hassle free. What would be worse than not hearing yourself is having to deal with damaged gear. That would be a total head wrecker. Having anice tone from a personal rig is just a plus and generally only for the players benefit not anyone else
 
#13
theshadow2001 said:
Having anice tone from a personal rig is just a plus and generally only for the players benefit not anyone else
Click to expand...

Have you looked at the gear I own in my profile? My original point was the poster may not need a 300 lb rack full of gear to achieve good tone. And yes, of course I agree that it's a plus when you can hear yourself on stage. ;)

My sitaution is most likely different than the original poster's. I have to fly when I tour, so I need something small & versitile that sounds great. I used to bring pedals, eq's, etc knowing that I would be facing a mystery backline at most shows. I eventually started using a BDDI for tone shaping on tour & ended up liking it so much that I use it for my "personal" rig as well. So for me, the BDDI is enough. I don't need a compressor, aural exciter, sonic maximixer, etc, it sounds good all by itself.

Most importantly- to me- with a BDDI, I am always prepared when facing a mystery backline. So throw whatever you got at me, I really don't give a rip, I will make it work!

OK... I'll stop oozing about the BDDI now, I promise.
 
#14
Indeed I looked at your profile a few posts back. Its an impressive range of gear that you have. Which also brought to mind the question if your an endorser for ampeg why you wouldn't be using their gear on stage. But thats besides the point.

My list of gear earlier was to show the other extreme of how much to excess you can go but still maintain a system where everything serves a purpose and is still useful. As opposed to something like having two seperate pre amps for diferent songs in order to get a tone for each or something to that effect. Which I think would be excessive to the point of stupidity.

If I were in your boat (or plane as the case may be) I would of looked into in ear monitoring. Which in essence is your own amp plus monitor all in a fairly neat package that could probably be taken as hand luggage.

One more thing. Is that you obviously gone through quite a bit of gear to arrive at your ideal of the BDDI. Which would be another reason I think the original poster should try different things out if his situation allows it. You don't really know what's out there or what's gooing to suit you best until you try it out. If you stuck with one of your earlier ampegs you might never of come across the BDDI and could be lugging 8x10s and couple of SVT's around the globe
 
#15
theshadow2001 said:
Indeed I looked at your profile a few posts back. Its an impressive range of gear that you have. Which also brought to mind the question if your an endorser for ampeg why you wouldn't be using their gear on stage. But thats besides the point.

If I were in your boat (or plane as the case may be) I would of looked into in ear monitoring. Which in essence is your own amp plus monitor all in a fairly neat package that could probably be taken as hand luggage.
Click to expand...

I do use Ampeg on stage and if Ampeg made a (well I said I'd stop oozing about it so I wont say the name *laugh*), I'd use that product on tour. I used to bring an SVP CL, Stewart World 1.2 & an SIB varidrive with me on tour. Then i started bringing my trusty SS-150H. Eventually through experience realized that I can get that same sound out of the single pedal, regardless of the amp or speakers I use. I use what works best for me & I dont care who makes the product - but the tone I personally like is a cranked Ampeg SVT. and thx for the tip on the in ears, but I have no need. Its not often hearing myself on stage is a problem for me & besides that, I live by the credo in your sig so my ears are full!

And for the record, I really am not trying to sell this guy on the *ooze deleted by author*. In my first post I told him "If you like the way your rig sounds, dont add to it just because you "think" it needs something". My tone has remained virtually unchanged for nearly 10 years. The only thing that has changed is the way I achieve that tone.
 
#16
I didn't read all of the posts, sorry if this was already suggested. But if you have one space left and want overdrive try the SWR Interstellar Overdrive Preamp. Now it is probably more than you want to spend, but the overdrive sounds great and it is one rack space! Hehe...and to answer your question I don't know if enough is ever enough. I seem to find something that can make what I do easier every couple of years. If you find a way to mentally be satisfied with the same rig for years and years let me know. In my defense the same amp has been in my live rack for almost five years, so I don't change amps and cabs often.
 
#17
theshadow2001 said:
Is there such thing as enoughs enough? I don't think so(I think Tombowlus will back me up on this one ;)).
Click to expand...

Two words for y'all: slippery slope.

Two more words: spousal consent.

And, finally, these five words: "where do I put it?"

If you can avoid all of these pitfalls (and bankruptcy!), then building up a "collection" to mess around with can be fun. But in all reality, if you have a good rig and a backup (plus perhaps something more appropriate for quieter practices), you are probably set. The rest is just playin' around. :D

Tom.
 
#19
cheers for all the responses so far! its given me alot to think about! as a result I am seriously considering either a SWR interstellar overdrive or a tech 21 sansamp RBI. I've realised the thing I've wanted all along was abit of drive to my sound - not distortion or fuzz, just a bit of needed extra bite. My only problems I am faced with are that the SWR overdrive is now discontinued and I cant find it anywhere - though I like the idea of it being tube driven. The sansamp is good for the money and easy to get hold of so is also a strong contender...but I am not sure how it works, is it tube or solid state?

Additionally someone already mentioned the sansamp can be used with a head - can the SWR interstellar overdrive preamp do the same or is it better used as a preamp with a power amp?

My last points of concern are I cant find any sound clips for the SWR overdrive anywhere - so if anyone here has one and could do me a favour of recording some examples of its dirty sound - I would greatly appreciate it. Additionally same for the sansamp RBI - the tech 21 site has plenty of sound clips but none of the RBI - can any one who owns one record some examples of it using a dirty/overdriven sound?
 

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