Where exactly is the " sweet spot" pickup placement

[taviswardlaw]

Sweet spots might exist until a different fret is played, then it's all out the window.

Surely if you're using a pickup with bigger magnets or bigger magnetic fields (ie. EB Stingray) then there's a greater ability to capture a range of different harmonic notes regardless of fretted position? Although the bigger the magnet generally the stronger which means more interference with the strings vibrations, particularly when it comes to the shorter (higher) overtones.

still, i try to write up a table today of where all the harmonic overtones sit (up to about the sixth or seventh) for each fretted note and see if there are any 'clusters'. My general understanding leads me to believe that these spots will be closer to the bridge than neck... i'll see if i have time

 

[mongo2]

still, i try to write up a table today of where all the harmonic overtones sit (up to about the sixth or seventh) for each fretted note and see if there are any 'clusters'. My general understanding leads me to believe that these spots will be closer to the bridge than neck... i'll see if i have time

Interesting idea. Knowing where the nodes and antinodes of the string harmonics are clustered may help builder select their own sweet spot to include or avoid those locations.

 

[taviswardlaw]

yeah i'll have a go at working it out today. i'll have to think about ways to prioritize which frets are most important for harmonic content and which harmonic overtones are most important for a full rich sound.... or i could just display all the info and let everyone else argue about what all the numbers mean

 

[GlennW]

...or i could just display all the info and let everyone else argue about what all the numbers mean

If I argue in caps will I win?

 

[lunarpollen]

Sweet spots, harmonic nodes, etc. change whenever you fret a different note, which causes a different length of strung to vibrate. Of course, some players may play more of certain notes than other players, so there might be sweet spot general "zones" (i.e., not a specific spot) for a given bass player. And of course, a lot depends on the tone preference of the player. Personally, my favorite "sweet spot" is close to the neck. If I have to have a 1-pickup bass, I'd want it to be a neck pickup.

 

[ccmbassplayer]

thesweet spot on a EBMM stingray looks to be dead center of the WIDEST part of the body (top to bottom)... probably gives it the most tone and bottom than if it was in an area of the body that wasnt surounds by as much hard wood.. I am sure surface area and density has an effect on over all tone ( vibration).. kind of like a small acoustic guitar compared to a extra large and deep jumbo guitar.

 

[mongo2]

or i could just display all the info and let everyone else argue about what all the numbers mean

That's the ticket...actually, IMO, it's a good idea to include everything.

 

[mongo2]

Sweet spots, harmonic nodes, etc. change whenever you fret a different note, which causes a different length of strung to vibrate.

Not untrue, therefore there's really only one solution:

With switching to select any combination of pickups. And an Auto mode to select the right pickup for the note played.

 

[nic salsus]

So while you can pick a "sweet spot" for a certain vibrating string length, you certainly can't for a whole range of fretted notes on a string. You can't make general physics change to suit your theory.

Notice I'm not one of the guys talking about string length and harmonics etc. My experience is that there are p.up placement spots that make the best of all the fluidity of the physics involved in playing over the whole instrument. These are what I call the sweet spots. It's voodoo if you only theorize about it. It's experience and common sense when you actually go and play with it and find what works for your ears. Also notice I'm not saying my sweet spot is the same as yours. We all have different tastes but saying a sweet spot doesn't exist is pretty much saying pickup placement doesn't matter.

 

[David Jayne]

Sweet spots might exist until a different fret is played, then it's all out the window.

The term 'sweet spot' simply refers to a place that happens to be a nice compromise between all of the available places to put a pickup.
The idea that it 'all goes out the window' is a bit short-sighted- if it were true, then why does the neck pickup of a Jazz bass always sound like a neck pickup, regardless of the fretted note?
Ditto for the bridge pup. Do some of you believe that if you play high enough on the neck, the 'sweet spot' will move, presumably toward the bridge, and so the bridge pickup will start to sound like the neck pickup? Silly, right?
It's all about the distance from the bridge- not the location on the scale.

 

[GlennW]

The term 'sweet spot' simply refers to a place that happens to be a nice compromise between all of the available places to put a pickup.

The operative word is compromise. It's a "all things considered, I'll settle for this" situation. To me, that isn't sweetness, because I think of the (imaginary) sweet spot as being a spot that will make every note sound its best on that particular bass. Since that won't happen, I'll stay in the "sweet spots don't exist" camp. No big deal.

 

[rodneyat]

Agreed, there is no single "sweetspot" on a bass, hence the myth. There can be as many sweetspots as marketing departments wish to conjure.

One of my personal favorite "sweetspots" is the on the original the '51 type P bass.

Another is on the Audiovox #736.

Ever heard a Stingray without the preamp? IMO, it's not very "sweet" sounding at all.

While I do agree that there are a lot of single pickup basses that truly sound awesome and are considered "sweet spot" basses. Your example of a Stingray is not one of the best...that pickup was designed from day one to be used with a preamp. Thus, it can be assumed it is not going to sound good without one. Just a thought.

 

[mongo2]

While I do agree that there are a lot of single pickup basses that truly sound awesome and are considered "sweet spot" basses. Your example of a Stingray is not one of the best...that pickup was designed from day one to be used with a preamp. Thus, it can be assumed it is not going to sound good without one. Just a thought.

The other side of that coin is it needs a preamp because of where it's located.

I forgot to add that I also like the G&L L1000 "sweet spot"

 

[walterw]

If I argue in caps will I win?

only if you fill entire rows with exclamation points

Your example of a Stingray is not one of the best...that pickup was designed from day one to be used with a preamp. Thus, it can be assumed it is not going to sound good without one. Just a thought.

The other side of that coin is it needs a preamp because of where it's located.

yep, the MM is traditionally wired in parallel, which in combination with its placement makes for a thin sound without the bass boost from the preamp.

+1 to the basic idea that a "sweet spot" pickup sounds clear and balanced in all registers with little or no EQ. as much as i dig (and use) P basses, that position is a little far forward for tight soloing or slap.

i would call it as being somewhere just neck-ward of the MM spot. i've heard ric basses with fat humbuckers in their "bridge" position, and that's a really good location, tighter than a P, fatter than a jazz bridge or MM, really nice for all-around playing.

 

[taviswardlaw]

whilst when you fret a note the harmonic nodal points change (as i believe i stated when i first mentioned it) going through today and working out where all the nodal points sit for each fretted note, there seem to be some places on the bass where within about half an inch you can get a nodal point within the first 6 or 7 overtones for each of the first 24 frets... still need to do some checking and finalizing of results though. It's gets complicated once you start actually analyzing not only that thee nodal points exist but how they interact through the overtone series when a note is played :/

....


still thinking wiring in a pup and just moving it around and playing has some merit.

 

[capnsandwich]

Right here. The pickup location on this bass is perfect! It gets me a divine blend of a jazz bass and a P bass tone. Makes a great rock bass tone.

 

[mongo2]

yep, the MM is traditionally wired in parallel, which in combination with its placement makes for a thin sound without the bass boost from the preamp.

Even when I re-wired with the coils in series I found it deficient in bottom though slightly better than parallel but it still sounded very constrained and middy in that position without the preamp.

On my "bench bass" I relocated the pickup to the L-1000 location and the tone broadened considerably when wired in either series or parallel with no preamp.

 

[carved czech]

Consider the balanced heights of pickups if they are two (jazz bass).......

 

[Richard Lindsey]

then why does the neck pickup of a Jazz bass always sound like a neck pickup, regardless of the fretted note?
Ditto for the bridge pup. Do some of you believe that if you play high enough on the neck, the 'sweet spot' will move, presumably toward the bridge, and so the bridge pickup will start to sound like the neck pickup? Silly, right?
It's all about the distance from the bridge- not the location on the scale.

I don't think I would grant your initial premise. IME, a neck PU in fact doesn't always sound like the neck PU, regardless of fret. It's not silly at all. I've done this experiment (albeit with a guitar rather than a bass), and it's true. When you go high enough on the neck (assuming your fingerboard and the neck PU positioning will let you do it), you can make the neck PU sound more trebly than, or at least as trebly as, the bridge PU.

It's NOT all about the distance from the bridge. It's about the distance from a point where the vibrating length of the string stops--a terminus, if you like. A vibrating string has TWO termini, not just one--the bridge and the fret (or not if the string is open). A PU that's close to either end will sound brighter and treblier than one that's not, all else being equal. The amplitude of a string's vibration is greater in its middle and less at either end. It's about whether the PU is closer to the middle of the vibrating length of a string or closer to one of the two ends of that vibrating length.

Now, it's true that on some basses, the FB isn't long enough for you to get as close to the neck PU as the bridge PU is to the bridge. It's also true that most of us don't spend a ton of time in the very highest reaches of the fingerboard, so what concerns us most is how things sound between, say, the nut and fret 5 or 7 or 9. But that doesn't change the basic mechanical issues involved.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

whilst when you fret a note the harmonic nodal points change (as i believe i stated when i first mentioned it) going through today and working out where all the nodal points sit for each fretted note, there seem to be some places on the bass where within about half an inch you can get a nodal point within the first 6 or 7 overtones for each of the first 24 frets... still need to do some checking and finalizing of results though. It's gets complicated once you start actually analyzing not only that thee nodal points exist but how they interact through the overtone series when a note is played :/

....


still thinking wiring in a pup and just moving it around and playing has some merit.

There's also the question of whether "nodes" are even what you want to encourage. Nodes, IIRC, are the points where there's no movement. Sure you don't want antinodes?

And the fundamental question of course is whether this matters to the ear.