What about the HK Neo 412 under an HK MB Fusion 800? Don't you miss the ability to overdrive right on the amp? The MB has 2 channels and a footswitch, so I'd have to get me a pedal overdrive or something to get that sound with the LH1000.
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Which amp for $1000?
- Thread starter James Copple
- Start date
What about the HK Neo 412 under an HK MB Fusion 800? Don't you miss the ability to overdrive right on the amp? The MB has 2 channels and a footswitch, so I'd have to get me a pedal overdrive or something to get that sound with the LH1000.
IMO he is wrong. With the combination of a mid level knob and a mid frequency selector, the PF800 has a lot of variety when it comes to tweaking the mids.
Ok, cool. I'll keep it on the list. The only remaining question mark is whether the PF800 will sound as fat as a tube-preamp model. I'm hoping to try them back-to-back but struggling to find a store that has PF800s and LH1000s and MB800s available to try back-to-back.
.. consider yourself going into battle, unless your new bandmates prove to you otherwise with their maturity and control of volume while playing .... you can do a rig for 1K, just buy used at solid prices that you can recoup easily should you decide to go in a different direction after you have been into it a while ... until then, arm yourself ..
Carvin B1500 used in the $350 range, there was one on here a while back, not sure if it still is available ... and add to it two used matching 8 ohm 410 cabs of your choice @ $300 each ... you will have a bit of modularity, a 2 ohm capable head that has proven itself for both reliability and performance, and will never leave you lacking for horsepower ...
.. then spend whatever $$ you have left on quality ear protection ... JMHO
Carvin B1500 used in the $350 range, there was one on here a while back, not sure if it still is available ... and add to it two used matching 8 ohm 410 cabs of your choice @ $300 each ... you will have a bit of modularity, a 2 ohm capable head that has proven itself for both reliability and performance, and will never leave you lacking for horsepower ...
.. then spend whatever $$ you have left on quality ear protection ... JMHO
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Since you have a german song in that setlist you posted, one could assume that you are from that area. If so, have a look at the FMC cabs. They are reasonably priced and you can get a lot of speaker for little money.
I'm not going to recommend specific gear because all i used with success in a similar environment is beyond the $1k limit you set.
But i'd recommend that you go for a minimum of 4x10 when choosing a cab. I can overpower my guitards easily on 4x12 with 500w, but could also hook up a 200W amp to these cabs and
stand my ground - maybe with the loss of the ability to drown the guitars in a solid wall of bass, but with the necessary loudness to be heard at any time. A single 410 did not offer that.
Neither did a single 212.
A total of 412, 610 (or 810) or 215 would be the cabs i'd put my focus on.
An amp with enough juice (300W up) and the tone you like, and you're ready to go.
The true worth of your equipment will not show in a music store, because that's where you go for that midscooped hifi sound that sounds so sweet when you're alone in your room - it'll show when you're set up against what the guitards throw at you and you still can make it sound the way you like while still being audible over all the sreaming guitars.
I'm not going to recommend specific gear because all i used with success in a similar environment is beyond the $1k limit you set.
But i'd recommend that you go for a minimum of 4x10 when choosing a cab. I can overpower my guitards easily on 4x12 with 500w, but could also hook up a 200W amp to these cabs and
stand my ground - maybe with the loss of the ability to drown the guitars in a solid wall of bass, but with the necessary loudness to be heard at any time. A single 410 did not offer that.
Neither did a single 212.
A total of 412, 610 (or 810) or 215 would be the cabs i'd put my focus on.
An amp with enough juice (300W up) and the tone you like, and you're ready to go.
The true worth of your equipment will not show in a music store, because that's where you go for that midscooped hifi sound that sounds so sweet when you're alone in your room - it'll show when you're set up against what the guitards throw at you and you still can make it sound the way you like while still being audible over all the sreaming guitars.
I strongly disagree on that one. Protection comes first. A good set of molded plugs with elacin filters costs €160 in my area and this was the best money i ever spent on musical gear.
With good plugs, your hearing ability does not suffer - both in the long term because your ears are protected and in the short term because while wearing protection, you still hear the music true and without the muffled highs you get from cheap plugs.
.. with all due respect, please re-read my post you quoted ... you will note the suggestion for quality ear protection ... nobody mentioned 'cheap plugs'... OP is a 45 year old man, from his photo I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he is able to determine what he considers as 'quality', and what resources he has available to him to purchase the same ... my comment was to emphasize the importance of ear protection playing in the type of band he is coming into ... your post reinforced that, but not sure what you are disagreeing with ... without an amp, he has no need for ear protection ...
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Some people can't use these, but for most purposes these are quite good (and quite musical) for less than 1/10 of that price: http://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-ETY-Plugs-Protection-Earplugs/dp/B0015WNZ9K/
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Mine:
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/mesa-carbine-m6-2x12-combo-rare.1078906/
Seriously, I play in metal and hard rock bands, with two guitars, both playing Marshall half-stacks, and I have never been able to turn the volume up past 3.
With 2 x 12" speakers, 600W is plenty for the setup you described.
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/mesa-carbine-m6-2x12-combo-rare.1078906/
Seriously, I play in metal and hard rock bands, with two guitars, both playing Marshall half-stacks, and I have never been able to turn the volume up past 3.
With 2 x 12" speakers, 600W is plenty for the setup you described.
I don't know where this "rule of thumb" came from, because when I was a young 'un learning bass, the rule of thumb was 2-3x - a 300W SVT to keep up with a 100W Marshall or Fender. But this gets back to my earlier post: More speaker area trumps more watts. I do know a few players who "need" 750-1000W amps, but it's mostly because they play through a single 1x15" cabinet. Twice the speaker means you need less than half the raw power. That having been said, if you find a nice-sounding 1000W amp second hand at a good price, and it's got all the other features you want, go for it. Headroom is nice to have. It's just that IMHO more/better speaker is a better investment than more amp power. And the trump card is that your band is already reinforcing the drums with the PA. Your stage rig only needs to fill the stage, not the room.
And, P.S., Official TalkBass Old Timer Warning: Mixing cabinets of different make/model is a crap-shoot. They may compliment each other, or they may not. Two of the same is always the safest bet. Mixing two cabinets of different efficiency and power handling ability is pretty much NEVER a good idea, even though lots of people do it with a 410+115 stack, in the mistaken belief that "the 15 has more bottom than a 410".
To the people suggesting Carvin, I play a BX1600, and while I love it (great head for upright) warm/growly/tubey it ain't.
Perhaps, but it does meet his budget requirements and has enough power to keep up with 2 Marshall stacks.
I have a Fusion 550 and an MB200, you might have dial in a bit more, but leave the contour completely off and work the other stuff to taste. One thing that surprised me is that the GK heads have a LOT of bass, far more than I was expecting. No problems cutting though, MB200 through an Avatar 2x10 neo (with Deltalite LF drivers, lots of bass but little mids) I still cut like a knife. That was two tube guitar rigs and an acoustic drum set in a wooden floor room that I was up against. With my new Fender Rumble V3 1x15s the Fusion 550 sounds fantastic. I might consider the GK Neo 212, lighter and those tend to have more midrange presence as compared to the 4x10s. Two of those and you are ripping the place apart.
- Sep 3, 2006
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If you look there is some consistency in what people are saying. Cab can make more difference than amp.
Your price range has changed since your first post. If I were going into a metal band today and could buy what I wanted, and were young enough to move it all around, I would get a 412 cab or my preference two 15" cab (two separate 15" cabs OR a two 15 single cab with really good speakers) and I would buy a YBA300 tube amp. But the GK MB800 and 412 cab should do the trick nicely. So would the Traynor 412 with the SB500H head or the Hartke LM1000 I first suggested. You could also build yourself a really good 3015lf based cab for a little bit less money or buy one I think in the same price range.
But the GK 412 MAP is $1049 which puts just the cab way over what you originally budgeted.
The Traynor 412neo MAP is $999; so both these cabs are in the same price range.
But you could also get a TC 8x10 for the same price.
The GK800 mentioned above should do the trick, but if you don't mind the weight, the LH1000 that several others as well as I suggested will come in at a lower price and essentially has two amps that will give great versatility in terms of adding other cabs.
I would suggest you listen close to the experienced people here concerning two guitarists with those Marshall amps. Don't pay attention to the watts of those amps. Forget you read they are 100 watts. THEY ARE EAR BLEEDING LOUD!!! Now I don't know, perhaps your guitarists have power soaks and play at reasonable volume, but I have met too many of these Marshall slinging guitar players that play way too freakin loud - especially metal. I know because I was in a band with one double stack Marshall and one single stack and there was no way I would have used just 12's unless it was 412. In rehearsal it was all OK as they would turn down (but still too loud) and used power soaks. But the second they got excited in a live gig holy crap!
Do budget for good ear protection.
In all honesty, I probably favor the SVT 7 Pro with its tube preamp a little more than the PF800. PF800 still kicks and sounds very tubey, though.
Great info, thanks. I'm in New Mexico as it happens.
This forum has reshaped my ideas. I think I'm going to mortgage the cat and splooge out on a 4x12 with a suitable head. The best reviews I've read have been for a GK Neo 412 which should also be light enough to manhandle, powered by one of an Ampeg PF800, Hartke LF1000 or HK MB800. The MB800 is top of the list at the moment for its features.
.. interesting that you bring these up .. I actually have a set of them on the way already, hope to have them first part of the week .. if the product lives up to the reviews I was reading, a few more pair will follow ... thanks!
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okcrum
in your chest
Yes! Since you need 700 watts to rehearse
You can buy 2 for your $1000 and master/slave them. Use 1 for rehearsals.Unless 1600 watts and maybe a couple of fridges isn't enough for live shows.
