I’m sure it’s been said before, maybe even in this thread, but there is NO circle of fourths, there is only the circle of fifths. The sharp keys are ascending UP a fifth, the flats are descending DOWN a fifth. Thank you, goodnight!
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Which Circle Should I Practice?
- Thread starter Cernnunos
- Start date
I'm going to be digging around in this stuff for a while. Thanks!
Take you time, go thru the lessons as they are laid out and make sure you have each lesson nailed before moving on to the next and you'll get the best results. There is enough material there to keep you busy for a long while. Enjoy!
Very easy answer here. Memorize them both. The goal is to be able to play any tune in any key.
I think it's worth learning them. But I can't see practicing them anymore than I can see practicing penmanship in order to make you write better fiction.
The circle of fifths (or fourths which is really the same thing) is useful for analysis. But it's not something you actually use to play bass. You'd be better off focusing on scale forms, chord tones, and scale harmonization during your practice sessions. A lot of what a bass player does is creatively outline the chords in a song. So the more you know about chord forms, the notes in them, and the more common chord progressions found in various genres and styles of music, the better off you'll be.
If your primary interest is in music composition and orchestration, you'd probably benefit more from taking keyboard lessons since basic keyboard skills (and the formal music theory that's usually taught along with it) are essential to any would be composer.
Just my tuppence.
The circle of fifths (or fourths which is really the same thing) is useful for analysis. But it's not something you actually use to play bass. You'd be better off focusing on scale forms, chord tones, and scale harmonization during your practice sessions. A lot of what a bass player does is creatively outline the chords in a song. So the more you know about chord forms, the notes in them, and the more common chord progressions found in various genres and styles of music, the better off you'll be.
If your primary interest is in music composition and orchestration, you'd probably benefit more from taking keyboard lessons since basic keyboard skills (and the formal music theory that's usually taught along with it) are essential to any would be composer.
Just my tuppence.
This. To be able to visualize it in your mind, and understand the relationship is the key thing.
I had a sax teacher who taught that you should practice scales, arpeggios and other patterns in all keys with seven intervals between keys: 4th, 5th, chromatic, whole step, minor 3rd, major 3rd, and tritone. The idea being that chordal movement happens in all those ways, so practicing patterns in all keys with those intervals in both in both directions makes you a more fluid improvisor across all possible chord changes.
Most guitar rock stays away from the #/b keys (Bb, Eb, Ab, Db/C#, Gb/F#), and you don't get a lot of complex chord movement. The fingerboard patterns are easy to transpose on bass anyway, so maybe you don't need to practice in all keys if you don't think you'll ever want to expand into more complex stuff (R&B, pop, jazz, etc.)
If you do practice in all keys, do at least 4ths and 5ths for intervals, if not more.
Most guitar rock stays away from the #/b keys (Bb, Eb, Ab, Db/C#, Gb/F#), and you don't get a lot of complex chord movement. The fingerboard patterns are easy to transpose on bass anyway, so maybe you don't need to practice in all keys if you don't think you'll ever want to expand into more complex stuff (R&B, pop, jazz, etc.)
If you do practice in all keys, do at least 4ths and 5ths for intervals, if not more.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Circle of 4th's
CF-b(BEADG)-BEADG
Easy!
Circle of 5th's
F-C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-b(D-A-E-B)
What's my mnemonic here?
I currently practice running the Circle of 4th's along each string for the top 12 frets. I have more exercises that I've built on top of that. These exercises are teaching me where each note is on the entire fret board.
Unfortunately for me, I think the Circle of 5th's could be more important than the 4th's. The 5th's are the basis for chord structures. Throw in a 3, and you can place a triad chord anywhere on the neck that you want. This seems to me like it might be the foundation for becoming a musician versus someone who can bang out some tunes. It's important to note, that I am interested in understanding the music I love on a deeper level, and eventually be able to do composition, orchestration, and arrangement.
I await your instruction on the importance of practicing 4th's and 5th's.
Don't practice 4ths or 5th ...
Practice songs
If you want fame, circle of 5ths
If you want glory, circle of 4ths
.... now, if you want immortality, try circle of minor 3rds and then go unlock the mysteries of the Crimsonian-Miles-Stern theorems.
If you want glory, circle of 4ths
.... now, if you want immortality, try circle of minor 3rds and then go unlock the mysteries of the Crimsonian-Miles-Stern theorems.
Agreed. Totally. If OP wants to practice drilling something, he's far better off drilling the diatonic triads and diatonic seventh chords in twelve keys. Doing this, he can advance around the circle of fifths and circle of fourths if he wants to, I guess. He may additionally wish to practice / drill the intervals off of each note of the fret board too (those will come in handy), and get a little ear training in there as well. He could also go around the circle of fifths and fourths with the intervals, I guess, although as you say, those "circles" are not really that important to practice, per se, as long as he understands how the circles of fifths and fourths work. He might figure out it's the same circle depending on which direction he's going.
For me, the problem with all this drilling is that it gets boring very quickly. So it's important, I think, to have backing tracks of favorite songs to play along with, and to continuously add to the repertoire. Otherwise, if all someone is doing is drilling, practicing seems to just grind to a halt. It does for me, anyway.
Thank you for posting this. I was about to try and say something like this.
Because I come from the school band world I tend to think in flat keys and the circle of fourths applies easily to what we do.
One more reason you shouldnt believe
The sheer ignorance of that video really bothered me. Like Abraham Lincoln said " Don't believe everything you see on YouTube ".This is such a useless and bogus video...And truly false statement right at the beginning
Let us not forget "The Square of Minor 3rds" (C - Eb - Gb - A), "The Triangle of Major 3rds" (C - E - G#), and "The Hexagon of Whole Steps" (C - D - E - F# - G# - Bb).
When practicing across all 12 keys, you might want to consider doing it as:
1. around by fourths (C -> F -> Bb, etc.)
2. around by fifths
3. around by half steps (C -> Db -> D, etc.)
4. around by whole steps (C -> D -> E, etc.)
5. around by major thirds
6. around by minor thirds
There's probably others to consider, such as different fingerings, playing on only one string, only two strings, etc. The whole point is to be fluent in getting from any chord to any other chord in as many positions as possible and memorizing all the notes on the neck. There's also benefit in training your ear.
1. around by fourths (C -> F -> Bb, etc.)
2. around by fifths
3. around by half steps (C -> Db -> D, etc.)
4. around by whole steps (C -> D -> E, etc.)
5. around by major thirds
6. around by minor thirds
There's probably others to consider, such as different fingerings, playing on only one string, only two strings, etc. The whole point is to be fluent in getting from any chord to any other chord in as many positions as possible and memorizing all the notes on the neck. There's also benefit in training your ear.
The cycle of 5ths vs 4ths is like two sides of the same coin. This is because 4ths and 5ths are complimentary intervals.
If you are in C, then the 5th is G. G is a perfect fifth higher than C. BUT G is also a perfect fourth below C!
Same for F - it is a perfect 4th above C, and an octave lower that F is a perfect 5th below C.
So 4ths and 5ths are intimately related as intervals, and that makes the cycle interesting. You go clockwise and higher in pitch, it’s 5ths. But if you go clockwise and lower in pitch, you descend in 4ths.
Counter-clockwise is the opposite: ascending in 4ths and descends in 5ths.
If you are in C, then the 5th is G. G is a perfect fifth higher than C. BUT G is also a perfect fourth below C!
Same for F - it is a perfect 4th above C, and an octave lower that F is a perfect 5th below C.
So 4ths and 5ths are intimately related as intervals, and that makes the cycle interesting. You go clockwise and higher in pitch, it’s 5ths. But if you go clockwise and lower in pitch, you descend in 4ths.
Counter-clockwise is the opposite: ascending in 4ths and descends in 5ths.
If you play jazz stds, you know the cycles.
2 5 1
3 6 2 5 1
4 7 3 6 2 5 1.
2 5 1
3 6 2 5 1
4 7 3 6 2 5 1.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
When I started I learned scales, chords, notes, theory, reading music, etc ...
that is great … but the end game is to play songs
practice songs … learn more songs … learn jazz, blues, rock, country, metal, etc
practice technique … learn more techniques … learn finger style, pick playing, slap, etc
also work on tone, volume, dynamics, learn how to play off of and with other musicians, learn how to be on the beat, play before the beat, and play after the beat, learn how to improvise … develop your ear
Grow as a bass player
that is great … but the end game is to play songs
practice songs … learn more songs … learn jazz, blues, rock, country, metal, etc
practice technique … learn more techniques … learn finger style, pick playing, slap, etc
also work on tone, volume, dynamics, learn how to play off of and with other musicians, learn how to be on the beat, play before the beat, and play after the beat, learn how to improvise … develop your ear
Grow as a bass player
