Who’s playing a Jazz?

[Corevalay]

I've been struggling with this for years. I love the way a Jazz sounds individually, but often I feel that the sound gets homogenized in a band mix. That has led me to mostly favor P-basses and some non-Fender designs in recent years, even though a Jazz Bass always feels like home.

This is my EXACT issue with jazz basses. I LOVE the way a jazz sounds playing in the bedroom. The tone is just straight nasty, growly, and fantastic. Even my favorite players have used Jazz basses and their tone is money (Geddy, Timmy C). However, once I step into a live setting, I just don't get the same punch and response that I do using a P or a PJ. I've also noticed watching OTHER bands, that a player using a jazz is just not as upfront and prevalent as someone using a P or even a Stingray. It really does create a dilemma! Also to note, I say all this as a player in hard rock/metal bands.

 

[Mark 63]

For me, it depends on the lead guitar player. If he's making a huge racket, I'm buried more with a jazz bass than I would be with a precision bass.

 

[thmsjordan]

I find that I prefer my jazz ( 60s spacing ) to sit in a mix better than my P when playing with a B3 player, which is most of the time.


I go true flat on the eq and then bump up the low mids by 1 number. Round wounds on a passive bass, both pickups dimed.

This allows me to be under the B3 as well as cutting above him by digging in.


All tonal changes are done by moving my right hand around.

I envy you playing with a B3 most of the time. I love it but it is very rare these days. BTW R.I.P Joey Defrancesco.

 

[bass12]

Jazz player here. Both pickups always at 100% and getting lost in the mix is never an issue, whether it’s in a trio setting or a twelve-piece setting. Some jazzes get lost in a mix, some don’t - same as with any other design (I’ve heard plenty of Ps getting lost in the mix). Depends on the individual bass.

 

[thmsjordan]

I use only two electric basses when I gig. I have a 2021 Am std. II Precision 5, and a 2012 Am Jazz Dlx. 5. Both are indispensable to me since I freelance. Neither has any problem cutting through the mix or getting buried. They are both stellar in terms of sound and I couldn't bear parting with either one. I am a big fan of the Sadowsky pre-amp in both cases. It sounds far better than the onboard pre-amp in the Jazz.

Just curious, I don't get the mid-range scooping thing with my Jazz but I have to assume that is because of the design? Does anyone have more information on this? My pickups are noiseless when soloed so I can only assume that they are split coil or some similar design.

 

[JimB52]

I prefer the Jazz in some settings but to cut through a live rock band I like a Pbody with a jazz neck.

 

[Ric Vice]

I owned and played lots of gigs with my 66 Jazz and I don’t recall having issues with being heard. My Lakland 55-94’s can emulate the timbre of a Fender Jazz or give me added lows with the MM pickup dialed in. Just my take.

 

[Altitude]

I think a lot of people drop the midrange on their Jazz basses playing them alone because then they sound like Marcus Miller.

Just run your EQ closer to flat and it will sound great.

 

[RVRSCO]

Jazz bass all the way. Definitely don’t get lost in the mix. I actually feel that a Jazz bass has more cut than a P Bass.

 

[LBS-bass]

I actually feel that a Jazz bass has more cut than a P Bass.

I agree and I'd suggest looking at this if anyone thinks they're getting lost. They shouldn't be; the jazz is well-known for its bite in the mid-range but if you scoop that all out you're likely to sound a bit weird.

I'm hearing far more P-basses with sonic issues around here, maybe because people like to play them boomy or something, but they often sound muddy and poorly defined. I prefer the jazz for the definition I get with it. But as someone said, there's a lot more to consider than just the bass itself.

 

[DJWhitJr]

I play a MIJ Aerodyne and don't get lost in the mix. If you are I would keep it simple and just tweak your amp settings. Simple enough.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

I play a 72 P and a 66 J, both strung with flats. I find if I eq them differently, I can get an articulate sound with a nice top and bottom end out of both instruments. However, I prefer a J live, especially with flats. Something about really loud volumes makes a Jazz bass into a completely different instrument. My J is currently being restored to factory spec, pickups are being potted this weekend and a new body from MJT is on the way.

 

[darwin-bass]

Years ago I had a J bass. Played the same gig each week in the same venue with the same musicians. Gave me time to really experiment. I found that the J always disappeared more if I blended pickups and stood out more if I soloed the neck pickup. The change where I stood was subtle but it was real.

Jazz basses buried in the mix? Depends on the mix. If the mix is a wall of sound with everyone strumming / playing full chords all the time then yes, it will disappear. If the other band members play tastefully and leave space for others (drummer limit tom usage please) then it will be fine.

Today I play a P with flats, and a Stingray with rounds. No J basses here any more.

 

[logdrum]

yes - Jazz
Yes it can cut

 

[scottfeldstein]

This is a really interesting discussion because I'm going to gig a jazz bass (Sire V5) for the first time soon. A couple years ago I briefly had a 2002 MIM 5-string deluxe active jazz, but got rid of it because of the weight and never gigged it. On my Ibanez and Warwick basses I would run both pickups full on without a thought. Maybe with the Sire I shouldn't. I have experimented at home with backing the bridge and tone off to get more of a p-bass tone–or doing the opposite and playing over the bridge pickup for more of a "You Oughta Know" vibe.

This will be a classic rock gig, so probably I'll favor the neck pickup. There will be a crappy backline amp and no room for my big board, so I think I'll throw some batteries into my Zoom MS-60B, dial in a Sansamp and call it good.

 

[mambo4]

My Lull MV4 is basically a 67 Jazz when I go passive.
My experience is going passive = better in the mix
At least until the engineer got his paws on the faders made the mix "modern"

 

[darwin-bass]

Any decent bass played by a good bass player will cut through the mix. There would be no reason to be different with Jazz. What gets in the way of a good mix are lazy engineers. All basses can fit all songs, but there will always be one that fits best.

I'm going to somewhat disagree with this. Some things make it nearly impossible for the sound tech, including the bass.

I do a lot of sound engineering and really work to get good bass guitar sound. I don't care so much about the kick drum . I've seen a few things that contribute to the bass being buried. Sound tech pretty much can't fix theses.

• Bassist who plays very few notes (e.g. whole notes on chord changes)
• Band that leaves no space - wall of sound
• Bass setup wrong so low strings are louder than high strings.
• Bass on-board EQ set to significantly boost lows and/or cut mids.
• Stage bleed.

In our church we have several bassists. The one who cuts through the mix the BEST is a Squire Jazz bass. Run with both pickups 100% and and tone wide open. The player plays whole notes on chord changes but when she does, you can clear hear the bass.

I think my P with flats & 'Ray cut through even better but it is hard to tell since I'm on the stage, not out front where I can hear it.

 

[darwin-bass]

A few more thoughts.

1. What you hear on the stage is not what it sounds like in the house. Players are not in a good position to decide what cuts and what doesn't.
2. The issue is only an issue with live music. Studio recordings are 100% different. Playing with mp3's at home is also totally different.
3. iPhone recordings of live shows are weak in lows which inherently filters the mud. They're fun but I'm not sure I'd trust them for deciding which bass cuts.

 

[darwin-bass]

Just curious, I don't get the mid-range scooping thing with my Jazz but I have to assume that is because of the design? Does anyone have more information on this? My pickups are noiseless when soloed so I can only assume that they are split coil or some similar design.

Anytime you run two pickups on a bass you get a phase cancellation somewhere in the midrange region. It depends on the spacing between the pickups. The closer they're spaced the higher the frequency of phase cancellation. A humbucker has the pickup elements spaced close enough that the cancellation shifts to the treble region so they sound darker.

So, yes, guaranteed you are getting some loss of midrange when you run both pickups at equal volumes. You may hear it as an increase in treble.

 

[LBS-bass]

The secret ingredient! I lent it to one of the guitarists I work with for a bass gig. People told him it was the best he'd ever sounded on bass. I've used mine at one of these "downtown after 5" gigs without a direct out, and everybody could hear me to the back of the park. I run a MoMark 800 watt through it. No compressor, no pre-amp, no nothin', just a clean, rich tone. I mostly just use the neck pup, add some bridge when I want a little grind. Easy-peasy.
PS: When I hear the phrase "sitting in the mix" my eyes glaze over. Either you have a nice defined bass sound or you don't. My real secret of success: When the band's sound person makes suggestions, I follow them.

Yep, those little RS 210 cabs are amazing. I agree about "sitting in the mix" because for me that is something you do with your volume controls in a recording studio. In a live setting, you want the bass to be heard, but not to overwhelm the other instruments.

Often there's a low-end disaster that's covering up a lot of sonic space with boom, and the bass player may or may not be responsible for some or all of that. Guitarists with too much bottom end can share responsibility for this, as can keyboardists. But if the bassist dials out that boom on their end, it can clean up a lot, which is why I use a high pass filter. I don't want to be "seated" in the mix. I want to be audible and clearly so, but not overwhelming. I feel like I get it right most of the time, though I have struggled in a few rooms with very poor acoustics.