Who played in Kenny G live?

[DWBass]

DW, seriously, look in the mirror. Almost every one of your posts in this thread has been hotheaded.

Sorry, nope. See the post above mine. That's hotheaded!

Nobody said he doesn't play music. We've been saying he has no taste. There's a big difference.

No, it just means he has different tastes.

 

[bongomania]

When you peel away all the b/s reasons of Why people don't like Kenny G, it comes down to two things. Jealousy and Envy. Plain and simple.

If that had any validity whatsoever, the supposed player haters in this thread would go around hating on every successful musician! Instead we have people saying I like this and this, but not this. So there is no logic in your statement at all.

don't take musicianship advice from people who don't have a steady gig.

Again though, there are loads of people on Earth who are music aficionados who understand the music and feel it and have educated views on it who are not themselves gigging musicians. To say only a gigging musician can judge KG's musicianship is like saying only a person actively working as a painter can judge the quality of a painting.

Look, I get it that your point was probably just to squash the thoughtless internet dirt-slinging. If that was your goal, fine, I can respect that, no need to run me back over. But slinging names like you did at anyone who criticizes KG is just as baseless as the opinions you meant to speak on.

 

[DWBass]

NOTE: this post is partially in response to the comments that people have made regarding a short video interview excerpt with me that was posted on the internet taken from a tv show for young people (kind of like MTV)in poland where i was asked to address 8 to 11 year old kids on terms that they could understand about jazz. while enthusiastically describing the virtues of this great area of music, i was encouraging the kids to find and listen to some of the greats in the music and not to get confused by the sometimes overwhelming volume of music that falls under the jazz umbrella. i went on to say that i think that for instance, kenny g plays the dumbest music on the planet – something that all 8 to 11 year kids on the planet already intrinsically know, as anyone who has ever spent any time around kids that age could confirm - so it gave us some common ground for the rest of the discussion. (ADDENDUM: the only thing wrong with the statement that i made was that i did not include the rest of the known universe.) the fact that this clip was released so far out of the context that it was delivered in is a drag, but it is now done. (its unauthorized release out of context like that is symptomatic of the new electronically interconnected culture that we now live in - where pretty much anything anyone anywhere has ever said or done has the potential to become common public property at any time.) i was surprised by the polish people putting this clip up so far away from the use that it was intended -really just for the attention - with no explanation of the show it was made for - they (the polish people in general) used to be so hip and would have been unlikely candidates to do something like that before, but i guess everything is changing there like it is everywhere else. the only other thing that surprised me in the aftermath of the release of this little interview is that ANYONE would be even a little bit surprised that i would say such a thing, given the reality of mr. gs music. this makes me want to go practice about 10 times harder, because that suggests to me that i am not getting my own musical message across clearly enough - which to me, in every single way and intention is diametrically opposed to what Kenny G seems to be after."

Ok, where's the outcry against Natalie Cole doing a duet with her dad or the folks who contributed to the 'duet' record with Frank Sinatra?? Or is thier music deemed not quite 'sacred' enough?!

There ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any musician that has ever attempted to address jazz at even the most basic of levels, Louis Armstrong and his music is hallowed ground. To ignore this trespass is to agree that NOTHING any musician has attempted to do with their life in music has any intrinsic value - and I refuse to do that. (I am also amazed that there HASN'T already been an outcry against this among music critics - where ARE they on this?????!?!?!?!, magazines, etc.). Everything I said here is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)

So you would actually attack an artist over something like this?

 

[bongomania]

Ok, where's the outcry against Natalie Cole doing a duet with her dad or the folks who contributed to the 'duet' record with Frank Sinatra??

PM specifically addressed the Natalie Cole record as well as a couple of other posthumous "duet" records in his diatribe, and explained specifically why he thought KG's was over the line.

 

[RHFusillo]

Although I love reading Metheny's rant against Kenny G, I find it hard to get bent out of shape about his crapping on Armstrong's recording of a really awful pop song. It wasn't like he overdubbed the Hot Fives or Sevens.


What's wrong with this series? Sidney Bechet, Steve Lacy, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Dave Liebman, Kenneth Gorelick.

And P.S. Mr. Gorelick has inspired the worst Richard Thompson lyric I have ever heard.

 

[DWBass]

PM specifically addressed the Natalie Cole record as well as a couple of other posthumous "duet" records in his diatribe, and explained specifically why he thought KG's was over the line.

Fair enough! It doesn't make him right though. I don't see any public bashing of Natalie Cole or any other artist. But how is any recording considered so sacred that no one can perform it or 'overdub' it?! Thousands of artists have performed these tunes! Secondly, Louis Armstrong didn't write the song!

 

[TimWilson]

He is an instrumental Pop artist, and has done very very well. And let's face it, got a lot of guys laid. That alone makes him ok by me.

+50. Not a poster here would turn down Vail's gig. And as long as Vail plays like he does, no-one will EVER get the chance to. You're a bad-ass, Johnson.

 

[DougD]

Jealousy and Envy,
Live together in perfect harmony
Side by side on my soprano saxophone keypad, oh lord, why dont we?

Overdub some of that, Kenny G!

LOL

 

[DougD]

Geez, from the tone of Pat's coments, you would think Kenny owes him money

 

[projectMalamute]

Not a poster here would turn down Vail's gig.

I think that you are making a huge assumption there.

Some people actually think music is important, and that making a meaningful contribution to the tradition is the responsibility of any conscientious artist. The music we are discussing here is essentially parasitic, Kenny G has taken what he needs from the jazz and popular song traditions and contributed nothing back. The world of music is no richer for his existence.

Maybe you don't care, maybe for you it's just about light entertainment and a pay check. That's your decision, not everyone feels that way. The fact that you cannot even conceive of the idea that someone would choose substance over cash is a little sad.

 

[DWBass]

Hmmm.....what's sad is that folks can't get over the idea that some people actually like the type of music Kenny G makes! Get over it already!

 

[TimWilson]

Maybe you don't care, maybe for you it's just about light entertainment and a paycheck. The fact that you cannot even conceive of the idea that someone would choose substance over cash is a little sad.

Maybe I assumed that most bassists aren't making a comfortable living with their bass - an assumption I stand by - but would jump at the chance to do it, even if it meant a degree of compromise. Would you walk away from your 9-to-5 for a chance to play bass for a living? A GOOD living, touring the world in comfort? Even if it meant playing music that didn't move you?

There's a lot of hours in the day. I'd cheerfully play with a Backstreet Boys reunion if it meant that I could spend the other 20 hours of my day working on MY music. In my expensive hotel suite, on my new portable recording rig, sipping expensive booze and marveling at my wife's new boob job.

 

[projectMalamute]

Hmmm.....what's sad is that folks can't get over the idea that some people actually like the type of music Kenny G makes! Get over it already!

No, I don't think I will get over it. Thanks for the suggestion though. You need to work on the reading comprehension there pal.

Sure, I suppose people like Kenny G. People seem to like McDonald's hamburgers as well. Given the option to make a comfortable living as an owner of a McDonald's franchise many people would choose to make there life's work doing something more meaningful.

 

[TimWilson]

No, I don't think I will get over it. Thanks for the suggestion though. You need to work on the reading comprehension there pal. Sure, I suppose people like Kenny G. People seem to like McDonald's hamburgers as well. Given the option to make a comfortable living as an owner of a McDonald's franchise many people would choose to make there life's work doing something more meaningful.

Something like maybe learning the important difference between "there" and "their", so one wouldn't appear semi-literate?

And your analogy is incongruous: There are thousands of McDonald's franchises. Like him or not, there is only one Kenny G.

 

[projectMalamute]

Something like maybe learning the important difference between "there" and "their", so one wouldn't appear semi-literate?

And your analogy is incongruous: There are thousands of McDonald's franchises. Like him or not, there is only one Kenny G.

Whatever pal.

Go back to dreaming about your booze and your wife's boob job. If these are the goals you set for yourself I suppose it follows that you would be a fan of the kind of substanceless, vapid music made famous by Kenny G.

 

[bassandbeyond]

Pat Metheny on Kenny G
Normally, I feel that musicians all have a hard enough time, regardless of their level, just trying to play good and don't really benefit from public criticism, particularly from their fellow players.

For me, this is the most insightful and agreeable part of Pat's essay. I personally like Pat's music, and don't like Kenny G's music. Kenny's longwinded, one-chord vamps just don't sustain my interest. But I also recognize that different people get off on different elements of music, and if somebody else likes what he's doing, there's no harm in that.

As a jazz musician, in a strange way I actually am kind of grateful for people like Kenny G, who have helped to introduce a much larger audience to the world of jazz. He's just a musician, he's not hurting anybody. Let's leave the guy alone.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Although I love reading Metheny's rant against Kenny G, I find it hard to get bent out of shape about his crapping on Armstrong's recording of a really awful pop song. It wasn't like he overdubbed the Hot Fives or Sevens.


What's wrong with this series? Sidney Bechet, Steve Lacy, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Dave Liebman, Kenneth Gorelick.

And P.S. Mr. Gorelick has inspired the worst Richard Thompson lyric I have ever heard.

But Richard Thompson wrote it. He has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Wow! I'm actually siding with Brad Johnson!

No comment.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not fair. You make it sound as if PM is just going around bashing fellow musicians, which he is not. It's clear that he offered this critique of this particular musician specifically because of the Louis Armstrong overdub thing (and, of course, because people apparently kept asking him about it). I doubt you'll find his "critique of other musicians he doesn't like" unless they do something comparable to (b).

It absolutely is fair IMO. Kenny G is easy to hate. So excoriating him over something other artists have done is lame IMO. It's the kind of thing that you may talk to other musicians on a personal level about but to put it in print is just plain lacking in class IMO.

There probably is something of a "true fellowship amongst musicians," as per another post, and I suspect that PM is very much a part of it. My sense is that the very reason he was so upset about the Louis Armstrong overdub thing is that he saw Kenny G as severely violating an unwritten code of said fellowship.

And the others who did the same weren't?


As far as the true fellowship thing... sure, unless someone rubs you the wrong way and then you can just go off on them.


Was the problem that he dared dub an Armstrong performance, period? It couldn't have been over that song.


Here's what I don't get... is Kenny G lauding himself as some great Jazz player or are people just really bothered by his success?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think this is way off the mark!!

So - I think most people are possibly slightly jealous of bands/musicians's situations of music they like and admire..!

But I don't think anybody's jealous of people playing music they personally don't like ...

I know you're wrong about that. It's been said many times by many musicians that it pisses them off that they spent x number of years honing their craft and in the meantime Meg White, Kenny G, some punk band, KISS, whatever is making way more money and having way more success while having way less talent than they do.

You've never seen or heard that?

Well according to that logic then you should certainly take advice from Pat Metheny - who has been touring virtually every day of the year for decades and whose gigs are always sold out and that's apart from his side projects with other Jazz "greats" ...?

If anybody in Jazz has a steady gig - then it's Pat!

So? Lots of people have steady gigs. I would bet you money there are people who play traditional Jazz that can't stand Metheny's airy gutar work.