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Who's Overrated? Who's Underrated?

#361
Oh my, this thread has just turned into a Jaco vs Entwistle war hasnt it? Personally neither have directly influenced my playing, but i am probably one of the youngest people on TalkBass (Being only 15) so i am obviously going to be influenced differently to you older bass players due to the different musical genres that are popular as of today. Jaco and Entwistle are both good in their own rights, but i don't see why this endless debate about who's better has a point to it? Its just people stating facts/personal opinion and its never going to lead to any actual conclusion of who is better, just seems like a big excuse for people to shout stuff at each other over the internet about who they think is better in my opinion, but thats just me, the rest of you can argue as you wish, just throwing my point of view in there too.
 
#362
One of my all time favourite bass players is Cliff Willams.

Underrated...definitely.

I'm having a hard time figuring out, who's overrated...depends on preferences too much.
I'm not into thumb-sports and fretboard-speeding.
So...if I'd say, who's overrated, I probably could quit posting at this board...:D
 
#363
LiamPodmore said:
Jaco and Entwistle are both good in their own rights, but i don't see why this endless debate about who's better has a point to it?
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I think the question is not who's better - because there is no real method of determining that - but instead who had a more profound impact on the development of the electric bass and playing in general. The topic itself gave rise to the debate because it asks forum readers which players they feel are unnecessarily lauded or inexplicably ignored. Granted, this is also largely opinion. Again, my point has been that with regard to Jaco, there is a tendency to credit him with much more impact than he actually had. It seems to me that some think he had more to do with the development of the Fender Jazz Bass than Leo himself.
 
#364
lowend1 said:
Again, my point has been that with regard to Jaco, there is a tendency to credit him with much more impact than he actually had. It seems to me that some think he had more to do with the development of the Fender Jazz Bass than Leo himself.
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AGAIN,

Ask the pro's who influenced them.

You know - the pros that you hear on the radio, on TV, on your favorite records.

The pros that influence you, me and other bass players that listen to their works.
 
#365
edubb said:
You totally missed the point of my post. Also your emotional response shows that your view is driven by...EMOTION AND NOT FACT. I never stated what my opinion was or who I think was more influential, better, etc. Plus I read this entire thread prior to posting. I pointed out that all of the top bass players that I have met (and I have met many) were influenced by Jaco, many felt he changed the game and none hold the Ox in the same regard you do. They never even mentioned him in any way, shape or form. That is a Fact. Its like asking Lebron James who's had more impact on the game of basketball, who advanced it more Magic or Jordan. Lebron's opinion is going to hold more weight than some guy in the stands because he is walking that same road as they did. Trying to get to the same place as they did. He has intimate knowledge through experience that you or I could not possibly possess. So YES, you have a right to your opinion, everybody does. I just feel that their view does and should carry considerably more weight than yours or mine. We do not have the experience or ability that they do (well, maybe you do, I do not.). If we did we would be touring, recording, etc not posting in this sillier by the post thread. "FACTS ARE STUBBORN THINGS". You really sound like a "Monday morning quarterback".
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After posting a list of facts, I really cannot get how you can think my view is driven by emotion, but to each his own. Can we evaluate different bass players with facts? No, but we can surely contrast them! I don't care if you appreciate Entwistle the same way I did or not, that would be emotional, because the thing is, it would be naive to say he's contributed less to the bass playing world than Jaco, because by history he has contributed more. Besides, the whole bass celebrity thing is a game of chance more than anything else.

They're there because they are the correct moment, in the correct day, etc etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not nullifying their talent, but most of the time, talent alone will not get you that far. I'm sure there's a bunch of killer players that never get the spotlight, that would rival by far most celebrities nowadays. However, to think their opinion is not worth as much because they're not famous is silly, and I apply it to every bassist, virtuoso or not, known or not, because an opinion is an opinion, and just because you don't know about his past experience, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Likewise, I feel the same about people not holding John dearly. It's not about loving him, or having him as a favorite, certainly isn't mine, it's about knowing about history and acknowledging his achievements when commenting bout something related to the matter. If you don't know anything about the holocaust, does it mean it didn't happen? Furthermore, if you didn't know about the holocaust, does it mean you can't know about Vietnam? Or have a solid opinion on modern warfare? Of course not. The point being is that, Entwistle influenced the bass world more than they did, and that's a fact. Whether they acknowledge it or not, is not my problem, and it certainly doesn't make their opinion dumbfounded.

I like Chris Barker more than Jaco, and he's certainly influenced me more. Doesn't mean he magically contributed more to the bass world, he's just my preference. However, if we're talking about history, which has to be validate by nature, then you can only lead yourself with truth is that, whether people find Jaco more interesting/influencing/crazier/sexier is doesn't matter because by history, he just didn't do as much as Entwistle.


Also,

edubb said:
You totally missed the point of my post. Also your emotional response shows that your view is driven by...EMOTION AND NOT FACT.
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edubb said:
If we did we would be touring, recording, etc not posting in this sillier by the post thread. "FACTS ARE STUBBORN THINGS". You really sound like a "Monday morning quarterback".
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#368
Underrated

-norwood fisher of fishbone
-mr.bungle's (the band) bassist
-infectious grooves (and metallica's) robert trujillo. Metallica dumbs his bass-ness down, but in the funk band IG he slaps all the time. Some of my favorite bass lines are from him

overrated

-entwhistle
-billy sheehan
-... I dont have a third one
 
#370
HeadyVan Halen said:
No mention of Ron Carter/Paul Chambers? I guess that would make them under-rated



Over-rated:
Me. Hang around for more than 5 minutes and your getting the same lick b!tch...and you'll like it
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Someone said a while back in the thread Paul Chambers was overated. Not sure I understand why. The Jaco vs Entwistle debate needs to be put to rest already.
 
#371
underrated

Phoenix(yea i know u cant hear him in linkin park most of the time. but listen to tasty snax and you'll see how good he is.

dirk lance(original incubus bassist. very funkadelic.)

geezer butler( has alot of catchy basslines)

Overatted

Gene Simmons(has a very crappy tone. many think of him as a great musician but he sucks. or maybe im wrong. maybe he doesnt show his "great" bass skills.

Ben Kenny(i think hes a good bassist, but he aint no dirk lance)

thats all i can really think of for the overrated section
 
#373
bassplayer1494 said:
Overatted

Gene Simmons(has a very crappy tone. many think of him as a great musician but he sucks. or maybe im wrong. maybe he doesnt show his "great" bass skills.
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First, learn how to spell.;)

Second, I beg to differ.

Third, NOBODY has ever prasied Gene Simmons in any way shape or form. It does not happen. Period.
"These guys know what they are doing," Singer said.

"They know music. They are unbelievably knowledgeable about music. Paul, out of anyone I've ever met in my life, probably knows more music trivia and minutiae. It's unbelievable his knowledge of songs. This guy knows more songs, the most obscure stuff. It's unbelievable. He's a real music aficionado, and so is Gene. They both really know their music theory, chords and voicing. (Simmons) always tries to tell you, 'Well, I don't really know what I'm doing, I don't believe I'm that much of a bass player.' He always tries to play it down and act like he doesn't know. He'll try to act like he's more about business and more about, like, presenting a product in a show and all that, but that's just posturing. Believe me."
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Like I said in another thread:

I make no secrets or apologies about the fact that I'm a huge Gene Simmons fan and that I feel he's a very underrated and unfairly bashed bass player. He's no virtuoso and he'll tell you that as well but he's a great rock player. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same way. Sure the guy can be arrogant or cocky or whatever, but I personally have no problem giving credit where it's due.


Again, I make no apologies, and I will continue to defend Gene Simmons to no end.


 
#375
Noseferatu said:
First, learn how to spell.;)

Second, I beg to differ.

Third, NOBODY has ever prasied Gene Simmons in any way shape or form. It does not happen. Period.



Like I said in another thread:

I make no secrets or apologies about the fact that I'm a huge Gene Simmons fan and that I feel he's a very underrated and unfairly bashed bass player. He's no virtuoso and he'll tell you that as well but he's a great rock player. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same way. Sure the guy can be arrogant or cocky or whatever, but I personally have no problem giving credit where it's due.


Again, I make no apologies, and I will continue to defend Gene Simmons to no end.


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just because u give me some links to a few kiss songs that have ok basslines doesnt mean that im gonna change my mind about gene simmons. i think that hes an overrated musician. all he does good is spit blood out of his mouth and swing his his mutated tongue around on stage. other than that, hes an ok bassist, a decent songwriter, and a not-so-good singer.
 
#376
bassplayer1494 said:
just because u give me some links to a few kiss songs that have ok basslines doesnt mean that im gonna change my mind about gene simmons. i think that hes an overrated musician. all he does good is spit blood out of his mouth and swing his his mutated tongue around on stage. other than that, hes an ok bassist, a decent songwriter, and a not-so-good singer.
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I'm assuming you're a jazz snob??

Did you even watch all the links??
 

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