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Who's transcribing what right now?

#44
Mark Wilson said:
I'm thinking of going balls to the wall and doing Jaco's solo on Port of Entry...
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That is a great one! I did that a few years ago. I've never seen an explanation of that high E natural towards the end though. :eyebrow:

He didn't have that note on his Fender and it's in the middle of a run and in tune enough that I don't buy any sort of "bending" explanation. It's a bit of a mystery.

Oh, for the OP; the last one I finished was Pat Metheny's solo on "Nothing Personal". I'm currently doing Bob Bergs' solo from "Snakes" on his debut CD.
 
#47
Marcus Willett said:
That is a great one! I did that a few years ago. I've never seen an explanation of that high E natural towards the end though. :eyebrow:

He didn't have that note on his Fender and it's in the middle of a run and in tune enough that I don't buy any sort of "bending" explanation. It's a bit of a mystery.

Oh, for the OP; the last one I finished was Pat Metheny's solo on "Nothing Personal". I'm currently doing Bob Bergs' solo from "Snakes" on his debut CD.
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well since he probably comped that solo from several takes or recorded it piece by piece,maybe he just tuned up for a lick he had in mind. the solos he took on that tune on bootlegs i have from that period are nowhere near that coherent or impressive.
 
#48
narud said:
well since he probably comped that solo from several takes or recorded it piece by piece,maybe he just tuned up for a lick he had in mind. the solos he took on that tune on bootlegs i have from that period are nowhere near that coherent or impressive.
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Good theory, and probably correct.

I also tend to agree with your observation. His solos that were not going to be released as either studio or live albums were never nearly as impressive as the recorded stuff; lending further credence to your theory.

Heard his solo on the same tune live? Nothing even remotely close to the Night Passage version.

I'm in agreement with many that while his execution was nearly flawless, his spontaneous creation ability was far less. Doesn't mean he wasn't a phenomenal musician tho; also doesn't mean it's anything less than a kick-ass bass solo too.
 
#49
Marcus Willett said:
Good theory, and probably correct.

I also tend to agree with your observation. His solos that were not going to be released as either studio or live albums were never nearly as impressive as the recorded stuff; lending further credence to your theory.

Heard his solo on the same tune live? Nothing even remotely close to the Night Passage version.

I'm in agreement with many that while his execution was nearly flawless, his spontaneous creation ability was far less. Doesn't mean he wasn't a phenomenal musician tho; also doesn't mean it's anything less than a kick-ass bass solo too.
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man, the solo on night passage is absolutely baller:bassist: i remember hearing that when i was in elementary school before i ever even though about playing and thought it was synth because it was so clean.

on most of the boots i have from the night passage era, he doesnt even solo on that tune. that and the fact you can faintly hear joe soloing underneath the bass solo is a give away that it was overdubbed.
 
#50
Seeing as his son John Pastorius just came up to me at a mike stern gig a few weeks ago and, through a drunken haze, accused me of being disrespectful to Jaco through a BassPlayer magazine article about havona that I contributed to......

I'm going to go ahead and disagree marcus willett (because I actually believe it, and not just cos John chewed me out about it before..) that I think Jaco was one of the most spontaneous musicians of all time. John seemed to think that I had made a statement like marcus..... but I really do think jaco was an on the spot creator. Maybe some of the solos he played on albums were overdubbed, but I don't see any difference between the albums and the live boots.

Pat Metheny is another cat like that that springs to mind. He repairs, overdubbs, re does almost every solo he's ever recorded. But live there's no difference.

Easy,

Janek
 
#51
That's cool Janek; we can agree to disagree. I don't think it was too much (although still) the case with Jaco before say 77-78 or so, but after that period I find his non-studio or (perhaps more to the point) his non-intended-to-be-released solos to pale in comparison to his intended-to-be-released (and probably heavily edited) work.

A prime example is the song in question; Port of Entry. That piece is obviously a bass feature. The bass solo is the centerpiece of the tune. Yet on the Live and Unreleased Weather Report album, (and this is I think why...it was not intended for release) he doesn't even take a solo on that tune. At least not it the way we are used to hearing him. He plays one of his trademark grooves and basically blows off the solo altogether. I have a hard time rationalizing him blowing off the solo spot in a tune pretty clearly designed as a bass feature, known for it that way on the original unless some other factor was at work.

Anyway, just my opinion. I agree it has no real bearing on his musicianship or creativity as an artist tho; which IMO is second to none.

I will completely agree about Pat though. I find almost every solo he's ever done to be inspiring. I also agree that one can be spontaneous and also mess with things. I've seen him quoted as saying "All of my solos are improvised" which I believe. But I'm sure he takes advantages of the tools available. Like many many others, I have experimented with "spontaneously edited" solos on tracks. By that I mean taking several passes at a tune....all of which is genuine spontaneous improvisation....and selecting the favorite bits to make a composite that is a genuine work of improvisation, but "assembled".

I don't really have a problem with that. I've witnessed Bob Mintzer do it first-hand and it's not as if he's a hack improvisor. In the end, it is improvised work if it's done this way, although perhaps a tad misleading to the listener. But I think the ends justify the means, and Night Passage is a great record...I don't care how it was made...it sounds great. So on this overall point, I completely agree.

I guess my point is that to hear any live version of it; it's not (to me) nearly as inspiring as the album version and I don't think that's a coincidence nor an isolated incident in the case of Mr Pastorius.

After all that, I'd give my left nut to have the gift he had...
 
#52
Janek, I read you part in the BP analysis and I don't think you were disrespectful at all. I came away thinking you had tremendous respect for Jaco, as was proven to me when I asked you about his influence on you in a recent thread.
His son approached you angrily in a drunken state? That must've sucked.

I don't like the recent snipes at Jaco's improvising though. Not from Janek; he hasn't made any. But others have. And it's only been since the Jeff Berlin comment a few months ago. Please people.
Marcus: you say you wish you had his gift, etc. yet you disparage his name by insinuating he couldn't improvise on the level of his studio recordings. Ok man, could be, but it comes of as sort of in bad taste since we're talking about someone we're all in debt to who is not here to defend himself.
Bad taste, like Jeff Berlin.
 
#53
bassnutj said:
you say you wish you had his gift, etc. yet you disparage his name by insinuating he couldn't improvise on the level of his studio recordings. Ok man, could be, but it comes of as sort of in bad taste since we're talking about someone we're all in debt to who is not here to defend himself.
Bad taste, like Jeff Berlin.
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Ummm...OK. I've said what an amazing solo it is. I've said I have no problem with "assembled" takes. I've said I'd love to have his gift, but I'm disparaging him because I'm suggesting that maybe, just maybe, as amazing as he was; maybe he wasn't perfect in every sense? Is that the foundation of your position on what I said? You yourself, say "could be", so please explain how when I say it, it's in bad taste, but when you agree it's what now?

He's not a God, he was just a man. I'm not allowed to ever have any sort of critique of his work because....he's dead? Or what is it, exactly? How is it "poor taste" for me to say

"I think he was an amazing musician and I would love to be able to do what he did. I do think there were also areas of his musicianship that were more developed than other ones." Name one musician living or dead who that could not be said about. :eyebrow:
 
#54
bassnutj said:
I don't like the recent snipes at Jaco's improvising though. Not from Janek; he hasn't made any. But others have. And it's only been since the Jeff Berlin comment a few months ago. Please people.
Marcus: you say you wish you had his gift, etc. yet you disparage his name by insinuating he couldn't improvise on the level of his studio recordings. Ok man, could be, but it comes of as sort of in bad taste since we're talking about someone we're all in debt to who is not here to defend himself.
Bad taste, like Jeff Berlin.
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i dont think theyre snipes at all. im a huge weather report geek. pre jaco and post jaco. really im more of a fan of joe and wayne. anyway, ive got tons of weather report boots. none of jaco's solos on any of those live shows can touch the studio solos. to bring that up isnt disrepectful, its just a case of listening and observing. whether he recorded them in pieces or not, he still had to play them.
 
#55
I've been having fun figuring out what Hadrien's doing (CD). Neat stuff, man. I didn't want to 'buy into' his playing for a while, but quickly realized how ignorant I was being. Cool stuff.

And on the same note, transcribing a little of Tim Miller on Janek's latest. The second version of Mana, something he plays in the very beginning reached out and grabbed me. By the way, the CD's killer, Janek. Different, with lots of room to breath. I dig it.
 
#59
Just gonna briefly touch on the Jaco thing: I agree that his live improvising had nothing on his studio playing. I don't think he's as good as a lot of the players out there these days. People don't want to acknowledge it, they're scared of it, the fact that Jaco, to a certain extent, was and still is a product of hype. As a bass player, it seems you HAVE to LOVE Jaco and cowtow to his legacy, or else you're crucified. Whatever. My take on it is that he wasn't as superhuman amazing as lots of people think he is, and I don't like his music. I guess I'm doomed to burn in hell forever.

Right now, I'm transcribing Pat Metheny on Solar, off Question and Answer with Roy Haynes and Dave Holland.
 
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