Why are 5-string P-basses so rare?

[hypercarrots]

Oh, I know how to pronounce Ibáñez, the original name. Why do you think the "new" owners decided to change it?
How do you pronounce karaoke?

sounds like ka da okay

 

[Chad Michael]

Anthony Jackson doesnt agree

AJ is a brilliant player, whenever he speaks, I cover my ears...

 

[Riff Ranger]

Wrong. It's Ps and Js, not P's and J's.

It's also '50s and '60s, not 50's and 60's.

I’m with you on the decades, but the baseball team in Oakland would be the As without that apostrophe, much as it pains me to use it. Hence the *disclaimer. They’re the Oakland A’s, not the Oakland As
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[cheechi]

a few misc thoughts that may add to (or subtract from) the discussion. My preferred bass is a 4 string PJ.

The neck pu of a good quality 5 string humbucking J set (in my case the Dimarzio Ultra Jazz) is the closest I have found to 'the p bass sound' on a 5 string. It does not sound exactly like a P. None of the other suggestions I make will either.

Take note of just how amazingly popular Stingray 5's are. Don't discount an L-2500 either. Either of these might be the real 'best answer' for you, if you are willing to accept 'you don't really want what you think you want' as an answer. I don't have either one of these but you really can't find anyone on this site talk down about either of these two basses and there has to be a reason. For as ubiquitous as the P is, the Ray is more or less the ubiquitous 5 string or at least top 2 if you feel the J is instead.

the split P needs symmetry. You could get a split P with a 3+2 where the 2 is a larger bobbin, larger pole pieces, and the same wind area/pole surface area as the 3. You could get a 6 string 3+3 split P and position it so the poles are between the 5 strings rather than right under. The first stingray (or a very early one) used a 5 string/5 pole pup for 4 strings, in this kind of way.

Or you could try a symmetric HB in the P position and see if you like that. One sound I really like is a HB bridge situated where the two rows of poles are the 60s J and 70s J positions, and the other HB situated in the P position where the 2 rows of poles are in line with where the split P poles would be. It sounds not exactly like a PJ at all but a very good sound, it's essentially an L-2500 but not the same positions they rout, and in my case I built it with 2 MM's.

I am not 100% happy with any of these solutions, not entirely failed attempts but my goal was to have a true PJ, no less, with an added B string. They are not that.

 

[Riff Ranger]

You can, as in the Bill Lawrence P-46. When used on a five string, both coils pick up the A string.

View attachment 3385033

 

[matante]

I’m with you on the decades, but the baseball team in Oakland would be the As without that apostrophe, much as it pains me to use it. Hence the *disclaimer. They’re the Oakland A’s, not the Oakland As
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's correct if they were literally A's as in the letter A. "My son gets mostly A's and B's in school" is correct, though you don't have to write it that way. In the case of Ps and Js, we're referring to basses, not the actual letters, so it's more like saying, "The room was full of corporate CEOs." (CEO's is incorrect.)

 

[Marko 1]

I, for one, wish Fender hadn't discontinued the Squier VM P Bass V. I suspect the 5 string P "shortage" has something to do with their value increasing lately.

I was amazed they did that. Fortunately I got one when they were $299, and it's 8lbs-7oz-- very happy with it.

My wager would be that a P-bass is thought of as a very simple instrument. When you add another string, you move away from that in the eyes of some people.

I love the B string (absolutely love/need it) but it's adding the J pup that makes it not a P anymore imo.

 

[Ric5]

Incorrect, it's the size of the coil.

A coil with the same diameter of wire as another with the same number of coils & a different coil length or diameter will generate a different output level than the smaller or larger coil.

To say that's incorrect goes directly against the laws of Physics.

I explained this twice previously (even giving milliVolt examples), how are people not getting it?

I have seen multiple reviews that say the 3/2 p pickup is quiet. Until someone proves to me that a 3/2 pickup does not buck hum I will continue to believe it does.

 

[GBBSbassist]

I was amazed they did that. Fortunately I got one when they were $299, and it's 8lbs-7oz-- very happy with it.


I love the B string (absolutely love/need it) but it's adding the J pup that makes it not a P anymore imo.

I definitely agree with that actually.

I'm not much of a 5 string player, but I have a few P basses and a few P/J's. The P/J's with the J pup off do not quite nail the P sound that I expect when I'm using the P's.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I have seen multiple reviews that say the 3/2 p pickup is quiet.

Yes, but it's not just because there's two coils.
There are other design tweaks that must be done beyond that of a 2+2 split-coil design.

hum-buckers - how they function

 

[Ric5]

 

[Riff Ranger]

It's correct if they were literally A's as in the letter A. "My son gets mostly A's and B's in school" is correct, though you don't have to write it that way. In the case of Ps and Js, we're referring to basses, not the actual letters, so it's more like saying, "The room was full of corporate CEOs." (CEO's is incorrect.)

Oh, I like you!

 

[Killed_by_Death]

It is not the number of poles it is the number of coils that cancels hum.

Not sure what the video link was supposed to prove, so I'm quoting the specific part of your statement that I'm telling you is false.
The reason Aguilar & Nordstrand's 5-string design cancels all the hum is because the coils are the same size. If they're not the same size then other design configurations need to be taken into consideration, like changing the diameter of wire used in one coil.

Link Removed

See?
It's a 5-string set where both coils are the same length. The reason for this is that the size of the coil affects how well the hum-canceling works.

 

[Ric5]

Yes, but it's not just because there's two coils.
There are other design tweaks that must be done beyond that of a 2+2 split-coil design.

hum-buckers - how they function

I build all sort of basses with all sorts of pickups … they are usually not designed to go together, reverse wound will buck the hum … I had many people tell me that what I did on my bass or speaker cab will not work … but I know it does work because I have it in my hands ...

 

[Killed_by_Death]

They cancel the hum well enough that you can't hear it. Put some high gain on it & listen again.

The size of the coil & the amount of windings directly affects how much noise is induced by EMI.
If you're shielding the instruments well it shouldn't matter that much, anyway.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I hope all the spirited discussion here convinces some of the budget-friendlier builders that there’s enough interest to give it a go, haha! I have a Spector Legend 5 Classic, and have had an Ibanez ATK-305 since they first came out; both make good sounds, but neither closely match the tone I get from the pointy P-bass-like-object in my profile image (which now has a Lace Aluma-P pickup); that’s what I really want. I will have to look into used Squiers and Yamahas unless my budget unexpectedly increases. As for answers to my original question: it seems from your responses that it boils down to builders pegging 5-string players as seeking more of a hi-fi tone (a generalization, though perhaps a largely accurate one), and split coil pickups in the sweet spot producing uneven results with that 5th string in not-super-high-end instruments.

It seems worth reiterating that I said 5-string P-basses are rare relative to other types—not that they don’t exist. I know they’re out there.

 

[chris_b]

I can’t be the only person who would like a 5-string P-bass, but it seems like those who make them aren’t making many, those who have them aren’t parting with them, and new ones don’t come cheap.

Three truths there.

I'd agree that the P bass appeals more to traditional thinking players, who will probably gravitate to traditional P bass designs, ie 4 strings.

I love my Lull PJ5 but I'll admit my go-to for live work is my Sadowsky RV5 Jazz. At home, in the studio and in rehearsals, my passive PJ5 just kills but walk onto a stage and I usually prefer the extra dynamics of an active J5. IMO they just work better in that environment.

 

[maturanesa]

Incorrect, it's the size of the coil.

A coil with the same diameter of wire as another with the same number of coils & a different coil length or diameter will generate a different output level than the smaller or larger coil.

To say that's incorrect goes directly against the laws of Physics.

I explained this twice previously (even giving milliVolt examples), how are people not getting it?

In a Jazz Bass you have 2 coils, both with different outputs and size (bridge/neck), and they cancel hum perfectly...
P5 offset coil users are telling you that they dont hum...

 

[Killed_by_Death]

This has been discussed ad nauseam, please read through the thread.
Tired of repeating myself.

I build all sort of basses with all sorts of pickups … they are usually not designed to go together, reverse wound will buck the hum

It seems to me you're talking about pairing up two pickups that have similar output & similar-sized coils.
Our conversation has been about coils where one is 33% shorter than the other.
Reverse-wound will buck the hum to a point, but to perfectly buck the hum, even with high gain, the coils need to be matched.

In a 3/2 pair, one of the coils might be using different diameter wire than the other.
I prefer Nordstrand's solution.

edit/add:
explanation of the >>compromises<<

 

[Ric5]

I prefer this solution