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Why are Alembics so expensive?
- Thread starter supremo
- Start date
I bought an Essence in 1992 - I had no idea what an Alembic was at the time. It caught my eye I picked it up, played it, loved it - negotiated hard and bought it for $1500 w/case. Didn't pay attention to Alembic prices until recently when I joined this forum and thought about selling it. I couldn't believe that same bass is $6500 now. My jaw hit the floor. I am no inflation expert but IMO $1500 in 1992 certainly does not feel like $6500 today. No doubt it is a beautiful, well crafted bass that sounds great and is joy to play - but so is my P-Bass....
Hopkins
Commercial User
Ive played one, and I still don't get it. It was neck heavy, I didn't care for it aesthetically, and the sound didn't really blow me away either. It played nicely, but I have other basses that play just as well.
I think we can all agree there are 4 major components of a typical product - material, labor, overhead and profit.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute that Alembic material costs per bass are significantly more than say a Fender MIA Jazz. How much more is anyone's guess but I'd bet its many orders of magnitude more considering the low production numbers and exotic woods and proprietary electronics and hardware.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute that Alembic labor costs per bass are significantly more than say a Fender MIA Jazz. How much more is anyone's guess but I'd bet its many orders of magnitude more considering the multi lam construction methods and painstaking attention to detail on a custom build level vs mass production level.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute that Alembic overhead costs per bass are significantly higher than say a Fender MIA Jazz. How much more is anyone's guess but I'd bet considering their location in the San Francisco area which has some of the highest property costs in the country combined with the high cost of salaries associated with hand building something vs having a machine churn it out 24/7 is significantly more as well.
That brings us to profit per unit and I suspect the real crux of the issue most of the Alembic haters have on this thread. Your guess is as good as mine but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that after all is said and done Alembic makes between 25% and 50% profit on each unit. Likewise I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Fender makes about the same percent profit per unit.
So what's the big deal?
What's a custom shop Fender cost these days and how does that compare to a custom built Alembic from a materials, labor, overhead and profit standpoint?
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute that Alembic material costs per bass are significantly more than say a Fender MIA Jazz. How much more is anyone's guess but I'd bet its many orders of magnitude more considering the low production numbers and exotic woods and proprietary electronics and hardware.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute that Alembic labor costs per bass are significantly more than say a Fender MIA Jazz. How much more is anyone's guess but I'd bet its many orders of magnitude more considering the multi lam construction methods and painstaking attention to detail on a custom build level vs mass production level.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would dispute that Alembic overhead costs per bass are significantly higher than say a Fender MIA Jazz. How much more is anyone's guess but I'd bet considering their location in the San Francisco area which has some of the highest property costs in the country combined with the high cost of salaries associated with hand building something vs having a machine churn it out 24/7 is significantly more as well.
That brings us to profit per unit and I suspect the real crux of the issue most of the Alembic haters have on this thread. Your guess is as good as mine but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that after all is said and done Alembic makes between 25% and 50% profit on each unit. Likewise I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Fender makes about the same percent profit per unit.
So what's the big deal?
What's a custom shop Fender cost these days and how does that compare to a custom built Alembic from a materials, labor, overhead and profit standpoint?
I agree. It's easily my favorite body shape of theirs. I bought one thirty years ago and still have it.
The name...their history...Stanley Clarke used to play them. Thats the only reason i can think of, cuz there definitely not on the cutting edge of great basses these days- IMO.
www.basslessonslosangeles.com
Congrats on keeping her Vince. I've got a Spoillate. It's like a Distillate with Spoiler dimensions/measurements. Greatest bass I've ever had my hands on.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Your basing your "overpriced junk" argument on a simple photograph. Seriously?!
Just because it is not what you like does not mean it is a horrible instrument. Get real, man.
I have been in my uncles C350 and sat in enough German-made cars at the Canadian Auto Show this year to tell you that there is NO comparison. None whatsoever. Although the Benz costs like 2-3 times as much, so it had better be more tank-like than any Hyundai.
Not bashing the Korean autos, just saying.
Man I think these thing always get over thought..
Why do alembics cost so much?
It's simple..
Because it's what people are willing to pay.
People whinge about Fender custom shop prices too.. Hey if people weren't buying them, they wouldn't be making them.
Why do alembics cost so much?
It's simple..
Because it's what people are willing to pay.
People whinge about Fender custom shop prices too.. Hey if people weren't buying them, they wouldn't be making them.
This:
A friend of mine visited Alembic and stayed at the Wickershams residence for a week, there's no extreme wealth over there (off course you can't look into their savings account)
You can get Alembics at ridiculous low prices (used) compared to most other brands (you can have an Alembic for less than a 70's Fender)
They do what they can to reduce costs (no endorsements) but will never compromise on quality of their instruments and welfare of their employees.
I have bought three used Alembics and two new ones (from dealer showroom and custom order) Worth every penny spend
SMCD: Cavity fest:
1988 Spoiler:
Link Removed
1990 Elan:
Link Removed
2006 Orion (upgraded to signature electronics)
2010 Elan (custom electronics, 3 pickup bass JPJ)
A friend of mine visited Alembic and stayed at the Wickershams residence for a week, there's no extreme wealth over there (off course you can't look into their savings account)
You can get Alembics at ridiculous low prices (used) compared to most other brands (you can have an Alembic for less than a 70's Fender)
They do what they can to reduce costs (no endorsements) but will never compromise on quality of their instruments and welfare of their employees.
I have bought three used Alembics and two new ones (from dealer showroom and custom order) Worth every penny spend
SMCD: Cavity fest:
1988 Spoiler:
Link Removed
1990 Elan:
Link Removed
2006 Orion (upgraded to signature electronics)
2010 Elan (custom electronics, 3 pickup bass JPJ)
Oh my God... please tell me this ^^ is a joke! LOLLLL!!
Alembic is a buisiness. It manufactures goods for a profit. They are not some trust fund baby painting for a hobby.
"I'm an artist". Holy crap I'm still laughing about that one!!!
Hopkins
Commercial User
So you are saying that artists are trust fund babies that cant take care of themselves? You are a real piece of work man
Gosh...where to start??
You can't really lump all Alembics into such a pot. I have played many. Have owned 6 over the years. Still own two. I've played some that I didn't like. Some that I liked more than others. Aside from Epics and early Spoilers, most Alembics have some element of custom build. If a previous owner specced an instrument in a way that it would have neck dive, it will have neck dive. For giggles and grins, the Alembic I have strapped up in this pic weighs over 13 lbs and has a huge headstock. My left hand is NOT supporting the neck. In fact, it's actually on top of the neck..."Look Ma! No neck dive!!"
Used Alembics can cost a lot less than new Alembics. Especially since older Alembics were produced before several significant price increases. Still makes 'em a bit pricey, even used. The 5-string in the photo above was a custom order. I payed 6-ish for it in 2000. Would not even consider parting with it for less than $8,500 today. That's because due to some rather hefty price increases over the years, you cannot order a new one of like content for less than 2-1/2 times what I paid for mine. So much for depreciation. And for what it's worth, I've seen a couple similar to mine sell for between $7 - 8, 000. That's how I've "arrived at" my $8,500 number.
That depends on how you draw the comparison. Compared to instruments ordered today, the resale price of my 1987 Series I 4-string and my 2000 Series II 5-string is low. Compared to what I actually paid for them when I bought them (ironically the same week in June 2000) my resale would be very good. Both would sell for significantly more than I paid for them. But, definitely much less than a new one of similar content ordered today.
I have sold or traded 4 other Alembics. I don't think I have lost money on any of them.
You can't really lump all Alembics into such a pot. I have played many. Have owned 6 over the years. Still own two. I've played some that I didn't like. Some that I liked more than others. Aside from Epics and early Spoilers, most Alembics have some element of custom build. If a previous owner specced an instrument in a way that it would have neck dive, it will have neck dive. For giggles and grins, the Alembic I have strapped up in this pic weighs over 13 lbs and has a huge headstock. My left hand is NOT supporting the neck. In fact, it's actually on top of the neck..."Look Ma! No neck dive!!"
Used Alembics can cost a lot less than new Alembics. Especially since older Alembics were produced before several significant price increases. Still makes 'em a bit pricey, even used. The 5-string in the photo above was a custom order. I payed 6-ish for it in 2000. Would not even consider parting with it for less than $8,500 today. That's because due to some rather hefty price increases over the years, you cannot order a new one of like content for less than 2-1/2 times what I paid for mine. So much for depreciation. And for what it's worth, I've seen a couple similar to mine sell for between $7 - 8, 000. That's how I've "arrived at" my $8,500 number.
Yup. When orders stop coming in, that is an indication that the prices are too high. Alembic does not appear to be having that problem.
That depends on how you draw the comparison. Compared to instruments ordered today, the resale price of my 1987 Series I 4-string and my 2000 Series II 5-string is low. Compared to what I actually paid for them when I bought them (ironically the same week in June 2000) my resale would be very good. Both would sell for significantly more than I paid for them. But, definitely much less than a new one of similar content ordered today.
I have sold or traded 4 other Alembics. I don't think I have lost money on any of them.
If Carl Thompson delegated the 'labor' and didn't have a hand at all in making custom basses - AND he charged high prices - that would be bad. I may be wrong, but part of the high price comes from the fact that skilled people make the custom bass. A luthier can be considered an artist. I will admit, I do not know the procedure for making Alembics - but only some of the cost comes from the materials used - it's more akin to buying DKNY or Chanel vs Timex or Wranglers. I think that's an over-simplification, but I don't think it's that hard to see why some brands cost more than another, whether that entails making stuff by hand or be able to charge high prices because people are willing to pay that for something they perceive as higher quality. I could spend $20 on a new swimsuit for my fiancee at Target or get something from Victoria's Secret for $100.
In my opinion, what makes some Alembics super expensive is the content that people who originally order them put on them. It is not hard to add anywhere from 30 - 150% of the base price of an instrument when piling on custom features.
Alembic charges a lot more for special wood choices than most builders. That's just a fact of life. If people don't like that, the answer is fairly simple....don't specify special woods.
Alembic has a ton of body styles and more headstock choices than any other builder I have ever encountered. Nine different headstocks that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I am missing some.
Their electronics are varied, unique, and (in my opinion) unmatched. They manufacture all their own electronic components and pickups. For that matter, Alembic manufacturers all parts of their basses EXCEPT tuning pegs.
Buyers can mix and match not only wood types, but body styles, headstock styles. And then there are the more frivolous options. Both my current Alembics have side LEDs. Some custom orders have absolutely crazy inlays. The craftsmen at Alembic hand (including the owning family) hand make the inlays.
Look at the inlay on the bass the gave Stanley Clarke....the only bass they've ever GIVEN to an artist. Which partially answers the " if they are so great why don't more artists play them?" question. You'd probably be surprised at how many bassists who play endorsed basses on stage have an Alembic they paid for in their home. Some, like Stanley, buy and play Alembics.
And every Series I and Series II instrument these days (since 2005 or so ) get this cool headstock inlay, unless they ask for (and pay for) something a little more special....
No doubt, Alembics aren't everybody's cup o' tea, but enough of us do appreciate them enough to keep them in business.
Hopefully I've done a little to explain why they cost so much and why so many of us think they are worth it.
Alembic charges a lot more for special wood choices than most builders. That's just a fact of life. If people don't like that, the answer is fairly simple....don't specify special woods.
Alembic has a ton of body styles and more headstock choices than any other builder I have ever encountered. Nine different headstocks that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I am missing some.
Their electronics are varied, unique, and (in my opinion) unmatched. They manufacture all their own electronic components and pickups. For that matter, Alembic manufacturers all parts of their basses EXCEPT tuning pegs.
Buyers can mix and match not only wood types, but body styles, headstock styles. And then there are the more frivolous options. Both my current Alembics have side LEDs. Some custom orders have absolutely crazy inlays. The craftsmen at Alembic hand (including the owning family) hand make the inlays.
Look at the inlay on the bass the gave Stanley Clarke....the only bass they've ever GIVEN to an artist. Which partially answers the " if they are so great why don't more artists play them?" question. You'd probably be surprised at how many bassists who play endorsed basses on stage have an Alembic they paid for in their home. Some, like Stanley, buy and play Alembics.
And every Series I and Series II instrument these days (since 2005 or so ) get this cool headstock inlay, unless they ask for (and pay for) something a little more special....
No doubt, Alembics aren't everybody's cup o' tea, but enough of us do appreciate them enough to keep them in business.
Hopefully I've done a little to explain why they cost so much and why so many of us think they are worth it.
Everything is relative. Currently there's a buzz about 70's Fenders but, when I started playng in the 80's, they were dirt cheap because their reputation was they were pieces of crap. Now they've crossed the magic 30 year old barrier and have become desirable. As a former owner and having played a load more of them, I'm still where I was in the 80's on that topic.
For what you get, for the workmanship you actually hold in your hand, I don't think Alembics are overpriced compared to what else is going on in the bass market at the moment. My example is that this Orion with mahogany, purpleheart, maple and walnut body and maple and purpleheart neck with crown headstock ebony board and inlays cost me quite a bit less than what I got for this 77 Jazz I moved on a number of years ago. There is no comparison in terms of build quality, tone, feel, acoustic resonance or quality of parts. In fact, they each have four strings, that's about all they have in common. The Alembic actually cost me about what a new US Fender costs in the shops over here. How is that possible? Why are Fenders so expensive, riddle me that
When I pick up my Alembic, I can understand why it costs what it does. I can see the painstaking detail which has gone into every single aspect of its design and construction. I can feel it in my hands. When I played my 77 J, I was stunned it was worth what it was. For some, the J is the dream and that's cool, different strokes for different folks, but for me the Alembic is worth every cent which went into it. It's just the level of detail. They're both bass guitars just with radically different philosophies behind them and, regardless of how old the Orion gets it will never catch up with the 77, in terms of worth. Relative to what else is going on, I genuinely don't think they're ridiulously overpriced as some seem to.
For what you get, for the workmanship you actually hold in your hand, I don't think Alembics are overpriced compared to what else is going on in the bass market at the moment. My example is that this Orion with mahogany, purpleheart, maple and walnut body and maple and purpleheart neck with crown headstock ebony board and inlays cost me quite a bit less than what I got for this 77 Jazz I moved on a number of years ago. There is no comparison in terms of build quality, tone, feel, acoustic resonance or quality of parts. In fact, they each have four strings, that's about all they have in common. The Alembic actually cost me about what a new US Fender costs in the shops over here. How is that possible? Why are Fenders so expensive, riddle me that
When I pick up my Alembic, I can understand why it costs what it does. I can see the painstaking detail which has gone into every single aspect of its design and construction. I can feel it in my hands. When I played my 77 J, I was stunned it was worth what it was. For some, the J is the dream and that's cool, different strokes for different folks, but for me the Alembic is worth every cent which went into it. It's just the level of detail. They're both bass guitars just with radically different philosophies behind them and, regardless of how old the Orion gets it will never catch up with the 77, in terms of worth. Relative to what else is going on, I genuinely don't think they're ridiulously overpriced as some seem to.
What draws me to Alembic the most..
The metallic tone you get from the low pass filter that sounds a little like a wah wah on halfway. No other bass(that I know of) has this...
The neck rumbling through your hand with each note...
Being able to drop the action as low as you wish...
The people are super nice, and only care about making the best instruments they can.
The metallic tone you get from the low pass filter that sounds a little like a wah wah on halfway. No other bass(that I know of) has this...
The neck rumbling through your hand with each note...
Being able to drop the action as low as you wish...
The people are super nice, and only care about making the best instruments they can.
I always wanted an Alembic bass, probably because of their reputation and the fact that some of my favorite artists played them.
I bought a 1998 5-string Rogue and a 1986 4-string Persuader (both in Cocobolo) used for a total of $2500. I couldn't get "the hang" of a 5'er so I sold it for what I paid ($1500). I have had many basses and even a custom bass made by Dave Pushic (an awesome bass and builder in his own right) but when I play the Persuader, I can just "feel" the difference. If I had the money, I would buy a new Alembic Mark King Deluxe 4-string....but sine I don't, I'll continue playing my Persuader and Pushic custom.
Worth it? Definitely IMHO
I bought a 1998 5-string Rogue and a 1986 4-string Persuader (both in Cocobolo) used for a total of $2500. I couldn't get "the hang" of a 5'er so I sold it for what I paid ($1500). I have had many basses and even a custom bass made by Dave Pushic (an awesome bass and builder in his own right) but when I play the Persuader, I can just "feel" the difference. If I had the money, I would buy a new Alembic Mark King Deluxe 4-string....but sine I don't, I'll continue playing my Persuader and Pushic custom.
Worth it? Definitely IMHO
