This is exactly my point, earlier you were sure they'd sell faster then they were produced.
This all sounds like a lot of trouble to add in distortion and a compressor.
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Why are standalone preamplifiers a dying breed?
- Thread starter pablomigraine
- Start date
This is exactly my point, earlier you were sure they'd sell faster then they were produced.
This all sounds like a lot of trouble to add in distortion and a compressor.
Compression and distortion are two things I would (personally) not put on a preamp the more I think about it. Tastes vary so much that most or at least lots of people won't even bother. Strip it down, give it tone shaping and maybe a preamp tube to overdrive with a hot input, and that's it (for me).
Just my 2p again
Just my 2p again
You might want to look at their BX 1200 - rather healthy power and a whole lot of patch-a-mization plus many EQ-muh-jiggies, too. I saw a used one in new condition at a shop for $400 last winter and was really amazed with how much the folks at Carvin had put into a head. Even brand new, that's a rather tasty deal.
Compression and distortion are two things I would (personally) not put on a preamp the more I think about it. Tastes vary so much that most or at least lots of people won't even bother. Strip it down, give it tone shaping and maybe a preamp tube to overdrive with a hot input, and that's it (for me).
Just my 2p again
We agree 100%
One of the big advantages of a pre/power set up is that you can swap out components at will. Tastes can vary so much when it comes to comp and dist.
- Apr 24, 2004
- 1,359
- 53
- Disclosures
- Designer Fodera Guitars/Michael Pope Design, Inc., Trickfish Amplification
If you think so. I totally disagree though. You'll never convince me that the quality didn't deteriorate because they didn't have enough money to spend on it because so many of their resources were going toward merely maintaining production of ANYTHING good or bad.
Compression and distortion are two things I would (personally) not put on a preamp the more I think about it. Tastes vary so much that most or at least lots of people won't even bother. Strip it down, give it tone shaping and maybe a preamp tube to overdrive with a hot input, and that's it (for me).
Just my 2p again
We agree 100%
One of the big advantages of a pre/power set up is that you can swap out components at will. Tastes can vary so much when it comes to comp and dist.
After some reflection I think Im going to agree here also.... at least insofar as the distortion is concerned. A decent opto-comp is easy to like when it's of a certain quality. The BBE, the PJB, the ISP Beta and the Eden Navigator all have a comp.... although I've never played the ISP... at least as far as the others go the only comp worth anything is the one on the Eden. The BBE is especially troublesome. The Eden has a dbx chipset. I think that same circuit or similar design would be a greatly appreciated feature for a lot of folks, and those who dont care for it can leave it off.
HOWEVERRRRRR...........
if a maker were inclined to go this way....
Insofar as distortion, have a tube input gain stage....BUT have a secondary, switchable gain stage with a second tube, so one could footswitch the overdrive in and out. Even better, add a HP filter or mix filter for dry / wet!!
I know I know I need to quit while Im ahead....
I actually use my BBE opto stomp as my only compressor so my point stands 
Compressors are a huge matter of taste just like distortion.
I think the FX stuff is all best done with an FX unit, or pedals, at least that's my opinion. For pre's I would almost always stick to just tone shaping with fx loops and such. Again my opinion. That'd appeal to the biggest audience I think.
One thing you could do is use two footswitchable FX loops, that I could get behind. Or just two channels that're footswitchable each with their own loops.
Compressors are a huge matter of taste just like distortion. I think the FX stuff is all best done with an FX unit, or pedals, at least that's my opinion. For pre's I would almost always stick to just tone shaping with fx loops and such. Again my opinion. That'd appeal to the biggest audience I think.
One thing you could do is use two footswitchable FX loops, that I could get behind. Or just two channels that're footswitchable each with their own loops.
I think that I agree with you here. Just a note about kits. My first product (not music related, you don't want to know) was a kit. That was simply a bad idea, because none of my customers were interested in the kit-building aspect of it. They wanted something that just worked.
Also, I don't think the kit made it possible for me to sell it for a lower price. Assembly wasn't a huge part of my cost, and my labor was "free" anyway.
For my next product, I shipped an assembled and tested module. I figured out that assembling the device took less time than providing support to kit builders when they had problems. And it made for happier customers.The big three had their chance in the '50s and the '60s when the Euro cars started coming over then the Japanese. Please they have time to make giant Escalades with 22"s and they can't reverse engineer a Prius.
The Camry killed the Taurus because it was a far better car at a close price.
An exec at GM said he had a difficult time convincing the powers to put one car (the Pontiac 6000) in the catalog with black wall tires in 1985. If you remember the coasts where inundated with the Audi 5000s, the BMW 528, the Volvo 740, the Mercedes E, Saab 900 and 9000. Please don't let them off the hook for their narrow vision. They never came out of their tower in the '50s and noticed that the Beetle was everywhere. Then the Toyota Corona and Corollas. It's just sad.
After some reflection I think Im going to agree here also.... at least insofar as the distortion is concerned. A decent opto-comp is easy to like when it's of a certain quality. The BBE, the PJB, the ISP Beta and the Eden Navigator all have a comp.... although I've never played the ISP... at least as far as the others go the only comp worth anything is the one on the Eden. The BBE is especially troublesome. The Eden has a dbx chipset. I think that same circuit or similar design would be a greatly appreciated feature for a lot of folks, and those who dont care for it can leave it off.
HOWEVERRRRRR...........
if a maker were inclined to go this way....
Insofar as distortion, have a tube input gain stage....BUT have a secondary, switchable gain stage with a second tube, so one could footswitch the overdrive in and out. Even better, add a HP filter or mix filter for dry / wet!!
I know I know I need to quit while Im ahead....
No wonder you have migraine in your name you're always day dreaming
After some reflection I think Im going to agree here also.... at least insofar as the distortion is concerned. A decent opto-comp is easy to like when it's of a certain quality. The BBE, the PJB, the ISP Beta and the Eden Navigator all have a comp.... although I've never played the ISP... at least as far as the others go the only comp worth anything is the one on the Eden. The BBE is especially troublesome. The Eden has a dbx chipset. I think that same circuit or similar design would be a greatly appreciated feature for a lot of folks, and those who dont care for it can leave it off.
HOWEVERRRRRR...........
if a maker were inclined to go this way....
Insofar as distortion, have a tube input gain stage....BUT have a secondary, switchable gain stage with a second tube, so one could footswitch the overdrive in and out. Even better, add a HP filter or mix filter for dry / wet!!
I know I know I need to quit while Im ahead....
I have had BBE comps both built in ( 383 pre ) and pedal ( opto comp ), and have nothing but good words to say about them. Both worked flawlessly and sounded great for my needs. Why do you think it was " troublesome " ?
- Apr 24, 2004
- 1,359
- 53
- Disclosures
- Designer Fodera Guitars/Michael Pope Design, Inc., Trickfish Amplification
It is sad. The big three made lots of innovations over the years. Now it's all garbage. Ford is still hanging there, though. At least is it seems so. I don't know first hand. I only drive bimmers.
I actually use my BBE opto stomp as my only compressor so my point stands
Hmm.... Ive tried the opto stomp also and thought it was great but the onboard one on my Bmax has really awful release characteristics... maybe just a fluke in my unit?
bongomania
Commercial User
Not sure it hasn't been mentioned already but don't forget about the Aguilar Tone Hammer! It's line level output can drive a PA style preamp and it is the size of a couple of boss pedals.
I've recently become most concerned with myself hearing exactly what the audience hears, or as close as possible. The way I see it, a combo amp or an amp head and a colored cab are giving me tone that the audience can't enjoy. A preamp power amp setup into an accurate, colorless cab like my Acme seems to let me get the closest to this goal.
I've recently become most concerned with myself hearing exactly what the audience hears, or as close as possible. The way I see it, a combo amp or an amp head and a colored cab are giving me tone that the audience can't enjoy. A preamp power amp setup into an accurate, colorless cab like my Acme seems to let me get the closest to this goal.
Honestly, I don't get why people think that you can't get the sound of your amp and cab into the PA intact. I never have that problem ever. Even in the worst of situations, I can still get a majority of my amp tone into the PA, and in the best situations, it's a piece of cake. Is it an exact duplicate? Of course not. But it's close enough to where it sounds like everything I like about my amp. Can't do it if you run a naked DI into the PA, but you can if you mic it.
I can see the appeal of the Acme approach as well, though. I'm getting a couple PA-style cabs my own self. I wouldn't call those types of cabs "colorless," since all cabs have color to them, but I'm very interested in trying it out.
I don't think I can agree with this statement......as if combo amps and amp heads have any reason to have any different number of variables then a pre/power set up. The range of transparent to colored is pretty much the same. And when I listen to a Acme cabinet it certainly doesn't scream clear transparent tone vs any other decent cabinet.
If your going to take your preamp signal and run it into a power amp and an acme cabinet there is no reason to believe that it's going to sound the same coming out of the FOH, most likely the signal is going into a board where it can be altered, maybe the entire mix is compressed, sent through a different power amp and an entirely different speaker arrangement that is designed for a different field of monitoring then your bass cab. Not to mention we're hoping to get into at least a nice two way system. If it's a club scene the system may be tuned for the booty shaking hip hop DJ.
If you control your own PA it's a different story but I can say I've run my Millennia TD1 DI into my bands pretty decent Bag End/ Crown PA and it takes signal tweaking to get what you hear from a bass amp out through the PA.
I think most of us in concept embrace this idea I just don't see this route as more advantagous then micing your cab or having a DI that works for you...
Pete
Yep....big time! This holds true for separate pre / power racks and integrated heads. Probably one of the best arguments for mic'ing a bass cab (and a tip-of-the-hat to JimmyM....but that's another thread).
Riis
I know this might be slightly off topic but still interesting.
I have allot of experience with 3 PA systems in particular. The first being my own small PA which uses a Crown XTI2000 using the internal crossover to run 2 EV ZX1s and SB122s, the second PA system I use for a fairly large band is two Crown XTI4000s powering Bag End 12" tops and 18" subs. The third is a large club I play a few times per month. They have a large rack of Macrotechs with Dual 15" subs on either side of the stage and the super fancy JBL line array hanging from the ceiling. The boards vary from an A&H Mixwizard on the two smaller to a Midas board in the club.
I explain all of this because without any changes to my bass signal my bass sounds very very different through each of these PAs. It doesn't matter if I take a DI out of my EA head, use a countryman DI, run my Millennia TD1 preamp or mic the cabinet. In all cases my bass sounds very different and the engineer or clown depending on the case has to make changes to my signal to make it work in that environment.
In all cases I'm sending what I feel is a high quality signal to the board and hope that it sounds pleasing. Make no mistake about it, it never sounds exactly like my stage amp nor do I want it too.
