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Why are there few 12" loaded bass cabs?

#21
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Andy Daventry:
I got it wrong? The Marshall website has it wrong, you mean.

PBG, whether or not 'I got it wrong' does not entitle you to take such as direct, offensive tone with people. This is why you tick people off, even when you are right.

And are you right here? It was you who said the Marshall stack was dveloped as a bass amp, not me. It's stacks were were talking here, not the 4x12....

Just a friendly word of warning....

smile.gif


Andy

[This message has been edited by Andy Daventry (edited August 01, 2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Andy, what was offensive about what PBG said? I'm only asking because I honestly didn't get that vibe from what he was saying. Did I miss something or is this just baggage from somewhere else?
biggrin.gif


 
#22
Brad,

It's the manner. The "Sorry, Andy, you got this one wrong", and then ignoring documentary evidence (the Marshall website) and changing his position blatantly (he goes on as if he had said the 4x12 was developed for bass, when his post clearly talks about the stack). And yes, there is baggage. PBG knows a lot, but cannot bear to be wrong. This has happened before here and on other boards.

I used the wrong word. Not offensive, tiresome is what I should have said.

I'm leaving it now. I don't want to get drawn into the trap Rich was...

Andy
 
#25
My class in Atlanta ended early today
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Evidently when people come across someone who they think is a know-it-all (for whatever reason), the opportunity to prove them wrong is overwhelming. I get this with my wife a lot
biggrin.gif


From PBG: The fabled Marshall stack was actually SUPPOSED to be for bass. Look it up, the Marshall JTM45 is just a Bassman in British clothes.

Seems plain enough, the “fabled Marshall stack”, so Andy looked it up
biggrin.gif


From Andy’s link:Pete Townshend was instrumental in the next major step. His wish to drive harder, accelerated the development of the first 100 Watt heads. He also asked for a special 8x12 cabinet. The impracticality of this cabinet led to a "stacked" version i.e. one 4x12 on top of another.
The Marshall Stack was here!

So that’s why it happened (according to Marshall). “The Marshall stack was here” sounds like it wasn’t before Pete. YMMV

From PBG:Of course adding to Marshall's already enormous mystique isn't going to hurt their business, but the implication that Pete Townsend helped design the 4x12 cab is more ad hype than reality. The 4x12 was a fixture long before, it's just not many famous players thought of the idea of 'stacking' them. Look how the article you referenced is worded. Pete Townsend was instrumental in helping 'develop' the 'stack', not the 4x12 cab. Sorry Andy, you got this one wrong.

PBG vs. Marshall
wink.gif


From Andy: I got it wrong? The Marshall website has it wrong, you mean.

OK... but then:

PBG, whether or not 'I got it wrong' does not entitle you to take such as direct, offensive tone with people. This is why you tick people off, even when you are right.

Where did that come from?
biggrin.gif


And are you right here? It was you who said the Marshall stack was dveloped as a bass amp, not me. It's stacks were were talking here, not the 4x12....

Just a friendly word of warning....

PBG obviously has a different take on the Marshall statement. The problem is, Andy didn’t say it, he quoted it from the website. He can’t be wrong if he’s simply pointing to the source
biggrin.gif


Here was where things got hairy, at the baggage claim department…

Like I said I had time on my hands this afternoon
biggrin.gif
I won’t say who I think is right or wrong because I think it’s pretty obvious that there are a couple of problems here.

Ahhhhh.
 
#26
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brad Johnson:
My class in Atlanta ended early today
biggrin.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Brad, you're in Atlanta today?? My band is playing in town tonight, you should come see us! Not 'till 11pm though, might be a little late for you, the name of the club is 9 Lives Saloon on Euclid Ave., catch a cab! I'll buy you a beer..


 
#29
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave Siff:
Originally posted by Brad Johnson:
My class in Atlanta ended early today
biggrin.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Brad, you're in Atlanta today?? My band is playing in town tonight, you should come see us! Not 'till 11pm though, might be a little late for you, the name of the club is 9 Lives Saloon on Euclid Ave., catch a cab! I'll buy you a beer..
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dave, wish I could. Got a call from United Airlines last night around 12:45 that my 10:30am flight had been cancelled and I'd have to catch the 7:30am flight instead. Been up since 4:30am to travel here from Md, got to go to last day of class at 7:30am tomorrow. I'll be hitting the sack hard tonight. Maybe next trip.

Again, thanks.

 
#30
Like Larzito, I have an Eden 2x12 and found it to be a nice compromise between tens and fifteens. A lot depends on the kind of music you play whether it has enough mids for you.

I'm only moving on from it because I need to go to two cabinets (the band has gotten louder since the drummer got an electronic kit), so I'll be selling mine.

As far as the other poster, I also was driving mine with a WT300 head, and I don't think 300 watts is quite enough; of course, that also depends on the music, tone, and volume required.



------------------
- Bob
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#31
Hey All,
I'm currently building a copy of ampeg sb-12 (tube amp). Since the original sb-12's were a combo with a 12" speaker I thought I'd make a suitable matching cab. I just recieved an Eminence Delta 12 today and I'm going to put in a pretty compact cab (about 14" x 16" x 19"). I'll let you know all know how it turns out. This is my first foray into 12's for bass. My other cabs are a 4 10" and a 1 15".

Dan
 
#33
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brad Johnson:
Thanks, Dave, wish I could. I'll be hitting the sack hard tonight. Maybe next trip.

Again, thanks.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Brad, good thing you couldn't make the show.. probably the worst gig of my life! Have a safe trip back..

 
#35
I have in my possesion a very well designed 2x12 cabinet made by Mr. Epifani in NY. For me it's not a compromise between 10's and 15's, but has the beefiness of a 15 with the attack of a 10's. It slaps very well and handles a detuned low A wonderfully (Mr Epi actually designed it to to that for Anthony Jackson) Its the best cab I've owned or played. Please audition these cabs if you find them.
 
#36
What was so bad about the gig Dave? Im just making it into this thread...

Quick tip for everyone:

LEAVE EXCESS BAGGAGE AT DESK.

It helps.

And 12" usually arent popular because they arent as punchy as 10"'s, and not as boomy as 15"s. Thats the only explaination people have ever been able to give me!
 
#37
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I have in my possesion a very well designed 2x12 cabinet made by Mr. Epifani in NY. For me it's not a compromise between 10's and 15's, but has the beefiness of a 15 with the attack of a 10's. It slaps very well and handles a detuned low A wonderfully (Mr Epi actually designed it to to that for Anthony Jackson) Its the best cab I've owned or played. Please audition these cabs if you find them.
Click to expand...

Coyoteboy, I've heard nothing but good things about Epifani cabinets. Unfortunately it would take a trip to NYC to check them out. No dealers that I know of.. I've played through a grand total of one so far, an older 210 that had been rode hard and put away wet by the previous abuser... I mean owner, so I won't pass judgement on it.
 
#39
75% of choosing a speaker size is trendiness.

Fender used 10", 12" and 15" drivers in a variety of cabinet configurations over the years in Bassmans. Although Ampeg used 10" drivers in the SVT, they preferred 15" drivers in most of their other cabinets and until Hartke, SWR and Trace championed the 4-10" in the early 80s, the 10" speaker was out of vogue. For the last ten years, the 10" has dominated but now the 15" is making a comeback.

As for the 12", well despite an earlier post about a 1-12" cab not cutting it standalone at gigs, I've used them extensively for over ten years, including the exact Genz Benz cabinet that was mentioned. For me, a 1-12" is a nice box, much smaller than a 1-15" in overall size and weight but with a bit of EQ it can sound just as fat; put 400 watts behind one and it's VERY giggable. In fact, I often get comments when other people try the Genz (it gets used at a weekly blues jam) expecting some wimpy sound due to the tiny size.

 
#40

One reason is size. A 4x12 is too big to fit on top of a 1x15. A 2x12 does fit, but doesn't move the air of a 4x10. Because a 4x10 fits in the same enclosure as a 1x15, you can use the same enclosure and the manufacturer can save money.

Another is cost to achive the same sound quality. A paper 10" woofer is easier to control and less likely to break-up than a paper 12". That's why really good audiophile speaker lines don't use 12" woofers until the top of their line - and then they're usually made out of kevlar or spectra or carbon fiber, which ain't cheap.

They also need larger magnets to control them, which cost more. 15 inch woofers have the same problem, but, because they are only one to an enclosure they're cheaper than two or four 12" woofers, and 15" are usually only used to hold down the very low tones, they aren't expected to reproduce the higher ranges of a bass.

 

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