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Why cant we all read?

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#141
Greevus said:
Musicians don't read for the same reason that you cook your own food but aren't a degreed culinary chef. It simply isn't necessary. It is going backwards for many people.
It takes much discipline, time, etc, and some people just want to get to the point. They are making music and that's enough for the majority.
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Greevus! You're not actually suggesting that I try toasting my bread and applying butter afterwards without having the recipe in front of me, are you???????? Good Lord, man! That's just too radical! And don't even start with that boiling water thing. Uh uh. No way. Not without a written recipe in front of me. No friggin way, man. Ain't happenin.
 
#142
The reason I can't read music (well):

1) When I first was learning to read music, I was playing bass, but because I was in a junior high school band and there was no written bass music, I had to read tuba parts (tuba is written an octave lower than bass).

2) I'm mildly dyslexic.

3) While at Berklee, my principal instrument was guitar... and to be honest with you, the guitar teachers didn't expect you to read well... it's just the nature of the instrument. There's like 4 ways to play middle C... reading music on guitar is like being told to read Dante's Divine Comedy in its original Italian... sure, I've tried... but getting lost is inevitable.

3) Since leaving Berklee, I haven't been in a single situation in which I've had to read music. Not notation, at least. I've been handed chord charts a few times, but that's all about knowing music theory, not reading notation... which brings me to my next point...

4) I know theory. Hell, I even give my best friend (an aspiring guitar player) "Theory Lessons" (payment amounts to beer and booze... not a bad deal). Knowing the difference between a vii-7b5 chord and a diminished chord is, IMO/IME, way more valuable than being able to read a couple of dots on a page... unless you are/aspire to be a studio musician which I am not/don't want to be.

5) I wish I could read well. To be honest, I know that being able to read could open doors for me. Luckily, I have a good full time job that pays my bills, and i can pick and choose the gigs I want (I currently play in only one band, perhaps a second on the horizon, but that's all by choice). I would feel more inclined to earn to read well if music was my primary source of income, but it's not... The Wine and Spirits industry is... so I'm more inclined to learn about "carbonic maceration" than how to read... but that's just me.

6) Rationalization is fun.
 
#143
I've learn to read at the same time I've learn to play. So after 11 years, reading and playing is easy to me.

I think people who don't learn to read think that learning to read will kill the magic of music for them. They will realize it so simple what they do it may depress them :hiding:

Seriously, everyone here learned to read english ... so why not read music ??? When you don't, I think you limit yourself a lot.
 
#144
JimmyM said:
ever notice that the only people on earth who say the costs outweight the benefits are non-readers? i've already browbeaten people enough over being too lazy to learn how to read so i'll refrain in this thread, but never in a million years will you hear a reader say the costs outweigh the benefits. and there are way more benefits to learning how to read than merely being able to read a sheet of music. even if you never read on a gig in your entire life, the benefits greatly outweigh the costs, and the only people you will ever hear say the opposite are non-readers.
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Now, Hoooollddd on thar pardner!!

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your response, I find it hard to agree with it. I learned to read 35 years ago and have made my living (mostly) as a gigging musician ever since.

In that time, I have had to read ONCE. It was for a Television show that featured a vocalist. Obviously, the sheet music was a necessity. That has been the ONLY time it was ever necessary. So I guess my apprehension with the statement is "Where are the benefits?" I mean, other than playing the piano for the relatives at Christmas and weddings, Where is the payoff?

Sure - I can always pad my resume and state that I can "sight read", but again, who cares? I have never needed it to play "Louie, Louie" or "Inagaddavida" or any other of the 200-300 songs that I have played over the years....

Shoot - what bothers me more than this are the weak-kneed bass players who can't handle the weight of their own gear.....:D:D:D
 
#145
I learned to read music as a child. Then I bought a bass as a teenager and 25 years later, I couldn't tell you what note goes with most of the frets on a bass without stopping and thinking. I write solid parts, figure things out by ear and understand plenty of music theory, but do I care about sheet music? No.
 
#146
Can someone say why it's like maths, all readers i've known are good at maths, me and all other non readers are anti numbers, not very easy for us to solve math problems and find which calculations are needed. I started reading years ago but at a certatin point , when it became too much calculation in my head how the metrcs go, I quit. Today by chance be4 finding this post I had a chat with my teacher, I want to try to take my reading one step further, for many reasons. I don;t expect to learn like to play pro, but for reaseaching styles, grooves, you know, and even as mind trainer. I told my teacher let's split my private lessons in: harmony, metrics and less hard stuff like playing existing songs. I'm a beginner, so no lots of creative stuff impro going on yet, only if i'm alone, when someone is around i freeze.:hmm:
 
#147
SactoBass said:
Greevus! You're not actually suggesting that I try toasting my bread and applying butter afterwards without having the recipe in front of me, are you???????? Good Lord, man! That's just too radical! And don't even start with that boiling water thing. Uh uh. No way. Not without a written recipe in front of me. No friggin way, man. Ain't happenin.
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Yes, but I've you read recipes, you'd learn how to make new and different things!

You can sit there in the light and enjoy your tasty frittata, or you can sit in the dark and force down boring fried eggs.

:smug:
 
#148
JimmyM said:
ever notice that the only people on earth who say the costs outweight the benefits are non-readers? i've already browbeaten people enough over being too lazy to learn how to read so i'll refrain in this thread, but never in a million years will you hear a reader say the costs outweigh the benefits. and there are way more benefits to learning how to read than merely being able to read a sheet of music. even if you never read on a gig in your entire life, the benefits greatly outweigh the costs, and the only people you will ever hear say the opposite are non-readers.
Click to expand...

Yes, and the only people on earth who say that running a marathon was worth are people who ran a marathon.

So... why aren't you running marathons? Too lazy?
 
#149
I make my living as a vocalist (all styles, but mostly classical), I read notation when I'm singing. However, it may be ironic, but on bass, guitar, and piano I'm a chord symbol reader, and have never had an easy time reading notation on an instrument. I'm sure if that's all I had to do that I would be better at it, but it's not a regular thing for me to need to read in that capacity.
 
#152
Well, as a person who wants to learn to read, how would all you readers suggest that I teach myself this skill?

I mean how will I know if I'm teaching myself correctly?

I could read "cat" and without anyone to let me know otherwise I might think it's "dog".

In music, if I never learn the difference between treble and bass clef early on, it could seriously handicap me later. I don't see how it can be done without an instructor.

...Which is not an option for me
 
#153
Nev375 said:
Well, as a person who wants to learn to read, how would all you readers suggest that I teach myself this skill?

I mean how will I know if I'm teaching myself correctly?

I could read "cat" and without anyone to let me know otherwise I might think it's "dog".

In music, if I never learn the difference between treble and bass clef early on, it could seriously handicap me later. I don't see how it can be done without an instructor.

...Which is not an option for me
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There are tons of books on learning music theory and reading. Just pick one and do it. It is that easy.
 
#154
It seems that this discussion has evolved into "a good ear is more important than being able to read" and such statements. It is not about which skill is better or even more necessary. IMO (there usually not an "H" in my opinions - sorry Brad), all tools are valuable, reading is just one, developing a good ear is another. Both are invaluable. I recently did a clinic in Calgary (the Canadian Rockies Bass Bash). Adam Nitti was also one of the clinicians. much of his clinic was devoted to ear training and singing.

My goal has always been to be the best that I could, to have my own voice and to make a living. I have, thankfully reached those goals. It gives me a bit of freedom, now, to expand even more. I value and am thankful for the teachers that made me read and for the one teacher, the late John Neves who said that the most important thing was to know how to read charts.

Mike
 
#156
Nev375 said:
Well, as a person who wants to learn to read, how would all you readers suggest that I teach myself this skill?

I mean how will I know if I'm teaching myself correctly?

I could read "cat" and without anyone to let me know otherwise I might think it's "dog".

In music, if I never learn the difference between treble and bass clef early on, it could seriously handicap me later. I don't see how it can be done without an instructor.

...Which is not an option for me
Click to expand...

this thread is about belly aching, no room for self improvement here. Move along.
 
#157
This has been discussed many times. Many successful professional musicians cannot read music. In my case, I have tried to learn it several times and just can't seem to understand it. It's not that I am stupid. I have an IQ of 147, and was always an A student, but for some reason, I cannot understand how to read music or theory for that matter. I have been playing for 32 years. I have toured, done music for television, performed on national TV and been a techinical advisor for several high profile shows. I cannot read music. A keyboard player that I sometimes play with has several degrees from Berklee. When I told him that I couldn't read and didn't understand theory, he said "how the hell can you play like that and not undertsand what it is you are doing?" He then followe dit up by telling me that I was the best bass player he had ever played with. I appreciated the compliment but I was also upset at my inability to understand the theory behind what I was doing. I have tried but I just can't get it. Hand me a cd and I will learn it in an hour. Give me sheet music and it might as well be written in a foreign language.
 
#160
Personally I think it would be cool if all kids were taught musical notation at the same age they're taught English grammar and spelling etc. From preschool through shows like Sesame Street up on through priamry school and secondary school. Instead, at least when I was a kid, music education only started in 1st grade and by then it was already too late for me (I started to learn to read English before I could walk) to be able to latch on to it. And even in grade school, music was just one of those once a week things like art or gym where you aren't really instructed rigorously like in other subjects.

If I was seriously interested in composing and playing certain other types of music, then I would look into some classes in learning to read musical notation. But for the music I'm into creating currently, it's completely unnecessary and would actually serve as an extraneous concept that would only get in the way of the methods I use now. I have no illusions or delusions about being a "professional" musician. I work totally by feel and ear and graphical shapes and moods and flavors that I imagine in my head. The thing that defines a note is its sound, not a symbol for the note. The quickest, most pure way to communicate a note to another person is to play the note as intended, not to write down symbols and words for that note. Of course, for certain contexts, some sort of written notation is extremely useful or even essential. For communicating and sharing serious compositions for larger ensembles of multiple instruments/voices, for instance. Or explaining complicated harmonies that can't easily be deciphered by ear.
 
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