Why cant we all read?

[Rudreax]

This argument is moot for me. According to the people I've played with I have a good ear, and I learned to read when I started playing bass so I've been set from the start. The best, most fun, and most rewarding (in terms of the music played, the vibe of the place, the people I met and played with, etc) times for me have the ones that required some sort of reading. They've also been the most paying gigs, which is a pretty good bonus if you ask me. I've found that the most interesting people to jam with are those that can read and are used to playing anything thrown at them; in other words, people who have everything covered rather than just one facet of being a musician. It might be different in your neck of the woods, but we're all just talking from experience anyway so yeah.

If you don't want to read, don't. If it isn't in your part of the musical world, don't. If the musicians you admire don't read and you want to follow them, don't learn. As for me, I find it to be incredible interesting. The people I want to be like and the musical settings I want to be a part of involve reading. You can get a ton of feel out of a chart or score; I find that the best musicians are the ones that can make a chart feel like it's their own original piece through the way they perform.

Also, this might not be important to some but if you can read, you're basically adding another whole set of literature of music that you can learn. So, by default, if you are interested in learning anything you can find (which is what I am), you're only adding to the amount of stuff you can learn by learning to read. Obviously if you know you wouldn't be interested in that stuff don't bother, though.

 

[JimmyM]

I think that's a very weak argument.

In economics science there's a thing called self-selection. It is something you should always take into account while doing such cost-benefit analysis.

- The people that do read music tell you the benefits exceed the costs.

- The people that don't read tell you the costs exceed the benefits.

Conclusion: People are different and have different preferences, they measure both costs and benefits in a different manner. Those for which benefits exceeded costs, they chose to learn how to read. Those for which costs exceeded benefits, they choose to keep on playing without learning how to read. And THAT's why very few people who know how to read music tell you it isn't worthy.

For instance, right now I think the benefits exceed the costs for me (but it doesn't have to be such a rational or conscious decision in every case), therefore I'm learning how to read music.

wow, way to poke holes in your own argument!

 

[JimmyM]

Now, Hoooollddd on thar pardner!!

While I agree with the overall sentiment of your response, I find it hard to agree with it. I learned to read 35 years ago and have made my living (mostly) as a gigging musician ever since.

In that time, I have had to read ONCE. It was for a Television show that featured a vocalist. Obviously, the sheet music was a necessity. That has been the ONLY time it was ever necessary. So I guess my apprehension with the statement is "Where are the benefits?" I mean, other than playing the piano for the relatives at Christmas and weddings, Where is the payoff?

Sure - I can always pad my resume and state that I can "sight read", but again, who cares? I have never needed it to play "Louie, Louie" or "Inagaddavida" or any other of the 200-300 songs that I have played over the years....

Shoot - what bothers me more than this are the weak-kneed bass players who can't handle the weight of their own gear.....

lol! that last part's true. but even if you never read on a gig, don't you think it bettered you as a musician for learning it?

 

[Buster Brown]

lol! that last part's true. but even if you never read on a gig, don't you think it bettered you as a musician for learning it?

Oh, there's no doubt about it! In ANY endeavor, the more you know, the better you are. I do not regret, for one minute, learning to read. My point was that at least in my station in life, it never seemed to matter a great deal.

But still, when I think back to Dunhill records on the Strip or CBS, or Atlantic or even Polydor....I rarely ever saw sheet music being utilized, with the possible exception of a recording I wandered in to where Greig was being recorded - stunning!

Still - before we get upset at bass players needing to sight read - I would rather see them get INTO THE GYM!!!

 

[SactoBass]

before we get upset at bass players needing to sight read - I would rather see them get INTO THE GYM!!!

So uhhhhh.....what are ya sayin?

 

[Exploiter8]

At least you got my good side!

 

[Audiophage]

Why does reading have to be so controversial? Way before I took up the bass I learned basic reading skills in grade school and reading was always a part of the lessons that I took. If you choose to be ignorant I suppose there is a bliss in that, but standard notation is just another tool for communicating and organizing musical ideas.

 

[bobknowsbass]

Lines- Grizzly Bears Don't Fly Airplanes
Spaces- Always Create Emotive Grooves

THERE.

 

[Beej]

Funny that jimmym mentioned his wife learning to read quickly. I started to learn a few years ago just to round things out a bit, although I'm far from a professional, or even an amateur. Oddly enough, within about four hours of work, I could fumble my way through sight reading enough to play a tune with a buddy on piano and make nearly all the changes perfectly. It was WAY easier than I had been led to believe and had psyched myself through over the years. I haven't kept at it though, and I agree with whoever said you gotta keep at it, but it comes back pretty quickly when I spend some time at it. Plus, being a psychology type of guy who has seen the massive amount of evidence on neuroplasticity, there are never any costs to learning something new. The cross learning and development in the brain will create gains in other areas you didn't even know existed...

 

[JimmyM]

my favorite part of these threads is when the "snobbery" comments start. only in america could someone who learns something and works hard to learn it be called a snob. there isn't a thing in the world stopping any of you from learning it except air and the willingness to devote a few minutes every day to it. the information's available on the internet FOR FREE!

yet i'm the snob. bite me.

 

[Greevus]

Snobs are the ones who did the hard work and tell everyone else how they didn't work hard and are lazy and about all the benefits they are missing.

 

[Buster Brown]

So uhhhhh.....what are ya sayin?

HAHA!! Funny as hell.....

Actually I rather lean the "other" way....you know the 6' 2" tall 137 pound dude that can't carry his own amp and is always looking for something the size of a pack of camels.......

 

[JimmyM]

Snobs are the ones who did the hard work and tell everyone else how they didn't work hard and are lazy and about all the benefits they are missing.

yeah, i once had this homeless guy give me that rap after he tried to bum $5 off me for crack. i was a snob because i had worked hard for that $5 and didn't want to give it to him.

hey dude, do what you want, but don't call me a snob because i accomplished something you didn't.

 

[SactoBass]

Snobs are the ones who did the hard work and tell everyone else how they didn't work hard and are lazy and about all the benefits they are missing.

+1

Would someone please contact Paul McCartney ASAP and inform him of all of the benefits he is missing?

"Paul.........dude.........you are like, soooo missing out. When are you gonna quit being so dang lazy and start taking your music career seriously, huh? Here......here's some sheet music. Take it and learn how to read it. Otherwise, no one is ever gonna take you seriously. Oh, and while you're at it, get a haircut."

 

[JimmyM]

right...well keep telling yourself you're just like paul, sacto

paul mccartney also married heather mills and got busted entering japan with a buttload of pot. who's to say he's any great braintrust? plus he got lucky and became a rock star and surrounded himself with people who knew how to read so by the time he could have used knowing how to read, he never had to bother with it. however, he worked very hard at learning theory and always tried to learn new chords and ways to use them in songs. he can't read but he knows chord theory.

hey, if you're one of those people who can do it, good for you. i could never have done any of it if i didn't know how to read. i'd still be a drummer instead of a multi-instrumentalist.

 

[SactoBass]

right...well keep telling yourself you're just like paul, sacto

Not a chance. He has way more hair than I do.

 

[Jpeachbass]

Im not trolling cause i don't even know what that is. What is it?

 

[Jpeachbass]

Absolutely, it is a great skill and often times not required .. but for someone who does this for a living, I cannot (and will not) say no to a gig becasue I don't have the requisite tools (spandex is NOT a tool)

Reading a lead sheet is a form of reading and it is an absolute necessity. There is also a difference between reading music and sight reading music. The ability to read music can really open up new doors as you study the music of others (along, of course with transcribing). Sight reading is a working pros tool!

right on - first thing - define your goals. With my younger studets - they all MUST read and sight read. When they bitch, I tell them it's too bad. Who knows where they want to be 10 years from now. My adult students I tend to let them direct the reading question a bit more

Mike

I like this one.

 

[Jpeachbass]

Didn't mean to stir up sh!%. But a lot of good things have been said. All in all i guess it matters to those who use it. But say you have played in an original band for 10 years and have no other skills but playing bass. And all the other bands are set with players. What can you do. Well there is always cruise ships. No, cant do that because you cant site read. How bout pit work, musicals and such. Nope gotta read there to. Cirque Du Solei? Definitely gotta read there. Barnum and Bailey? Reading. Hotel circuit abroad? Usually gotta read well. How about big band work? Unless you can get the arranger to send you midi files or old recordings of his work, you gotta read. So whats left. The coffee house on the corner doing solo work with a loop station and a drum machine? Not a bad gig if you can do it a lot. Im not taking shots at those who cannot read by any means. Just pointing out that the cost may not out way the gain. Realistically a lot of us will not have to read. I know fantastic musicians who cannot. Who work as professional musicians and live comfortably. But they have to turn down a lot of gigs because they cant read. So why not learn just to say you can and move on. If you need it its there. And you can eat for a day or two.

 

[Melik]

Because for some people music is a hobby and they do it for fun and they don't like reading. And even for musicians who can't read and don't need the skill, why the heck should they learn to read? For common knowledge?