If someone says "Play a C major chord", they don't mean a C maj7 or C dom7. They mean C major. Would you throw in a major 9th, 11th, or 13th? nope. Why would you throw in the 7th then?
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Why does this chord progression sound good even though it's using notes not in the correct key?
- Thread starter DuckSoup
- Start date
I’m not going to presume to know what every possible person who could ever utter the phrase “play a C major chord” would mean by that. It probably shows a bias towards pop music styles that you are comfortable presuming that.
But what I do know for sure is that you’re using the word “chord” to mean “triad.”
Because you are trying to make your sequence resolve to a dominant chord, and that's not going to happen. It sounds better with the F# because then you are setting up G tonality, not C, and resolving to the GM7, the tonic. And please ignore all these rockers who are telling you that your voicing shouldn't include the 7th. They have no idea.
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Also, depending on the style, you might very well throw in one of those extensions even without being told.
One non-jazz example is keyboard parts in lots of Contemporary Christian music. Adding the 9th is a very common thing and almost the default for keys parts in that style, even if it’s not explicitly written in the chart.
Given context, in practice, sure. We're talking theory though.
Just based on "spelling", a major chord is the triad. A major 7 is a thing, with its own spelling. I assume nothing, so unless a more detailed chord spelling is used, major and minor chords are triads. If you go adding other notes, you've changed the spelling. The OP is a music theory novice by their own words. So i think it's best to start with basics and not make assumptions like 7ths are always included in a major chord--which is the misconception i was addressing.
Many good interventions, but so far it seems that nobody mentioned the progression might be in C Lydian, which is the 4th mode of the G (Major) scale -- the same notes as the G scale but with C as its tonal centre.
I don’t find the conflation of the terms “chord” and “triad” to be a healthy practice, especially for novices.
I get you. But the OP said "major chord", naming it specifically. Not major 7, dominant 7, etc. Not all chords are triads. Major and minor chords are. When you add other notes they become different chords with different spellings.
I mean, in the strictest sense you’re still wrong by continuing to say “major and minor chords are [triads].” Some are, some aren’t. Which is precisely why I feel it’s important to be… precise.
(sorry, just an overly pedantic music theorist here. carry on.)
you stated this twice in 2 separate posts. but, the fact is in the baroque period, which is when our modern use of chords started to become popular the 2 did mean exactly the same thing. All MAJ and min chords are based on triads. To mean any other combination of notes, a different designation needs to be invoked. Therefor for novices I think it is very important to understand the relationship between triads and chords. Only after they fully understand triads do they need to learn dyads, tetrads, pentads, and polychords.
You can certainly play anything you like. But I wouldn't play that, unless my intent was to create some sort of crazy mood or effect...which IMHO your recording does quite nicely
. IMHO the OP is hearing the progression in G Maj, but doesn't realize it.
And I am being even more pedantic! I agree we should drop it but...I mean, in the strictest sense you’re still wrong by continuing to say “major and minor chords are [triads].” Some are, some aren’t. Which is precisely why I feel it’s important to be… precise.
(sorry, just an overly pedantic music theorist here. carry on.)
A major or minor chord IS by definition a triad. When you add a 7th to a major chord, it becomes a major 7th or a dominant 7th. When you add a 7th to a minor chord, it becomes a minor 7th or a minor major 7th.
When you play C E G Bb, you're not playing a C major chord. You're playing a C dominant 7th chord. The C major chord only has the nodes C, E, and G. You can invert it however you like and it's still a C major chord and still has only those three notes. But when you add any other notes, you are changing the chord...
No, “chord” and “triad” were not synonymous. “Perfect chord” and “triad” were synonymous. Rameau’s chapter called “On the Seventh Chord” in his 1722 treatise clearly tells us that “chord” already had non-triadic contexts during the Baroque period.
Nope, sorry. The pedantry prize lives with me lol.
Simply saying or writing the term “major chord” only tells you one thing for sure about that chord: it has a major 3rd above its root. Period. Anything else about the chord, whether it’s simply a triad, or whether it’s a seventh chord, can only be an assumption. That’s merely a function of the overgeneralized nature of the word “chord.”
All you guys have to do is just use the word “triad” when you mean “triad” and we’ll be good here.
Definition of "chord": a group of (typically three or more) notes sounded together, as a basis of harmony.
So a triad is a special kind of chord. This may not be what is taught in your school, but it is the common meaning.
If someone says play a C Major chord, they mean play the notes CEG. If they mean something else, they are ignorant or wrong. It would be entirely okay if they said play a C Major triad, but it would not change anything.
The only freedom to interpret is the inversion: CEG, EGC, GCE are all C Major. Of course someone may tell you the inversion as well.
Notice each of these chords has a different name, but all contain the C Maj triad.
CEG (C Major)
CEGB (C Maj7)
CEGBb (C7)
CEGA (C6)
You can't just randomly play any of these chords over C Maj. If you want to play the 7th or 6th you need to understand harmonization well enough to choose the correct extension. Depending on the situation, more than one may be correct, but not all. It's not a matter of style, it's a matter of applying music theory.
However if you play the extension, which can be entirely acceptable, you are no longer playing C Maj.
All you guys have to do is just use the word “triad” when you mean “triad” and we’ll be good here.
How about you accept the common definition of chord includes triads
.Also let's keep in mind that music schools use terms differently. Meaning I accept that you may have been taught different definitions. It doesn't make you right or wrong. It just makes this a stupid thing to argue about.
How about you accept the common definition of chord includes triads
Also let's keep in mind that music schools use terms differently. Meaning I accept that you may have been taught different definitions. It doesn't make you right wrong. It just makes this a stupid thing to argue about.
I never said the common definition of chord didn’t include triads. Only that the conflation of the two terms is not precise enough language to use when trying to teach novices.
Cliff Notes version:
All triads are chords.
Not all chords are triads.
All triads are chords.
Not all chords are triads.
I wouldn't play that, unless my intent was to create some sort of crazy mood or effect...which IMHO your recording does quite nicely
That was sort of the point of the exercise, a rather extreme context for the chords. Sounds pretty awful, eh?
Since he hates the G7 tonality, I agree 100%.
