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Why have a low c# string?

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#106
MR PC said:
Ok, you said I was being an ass. Point taken. I don't feel superior to anyone here. Choice? My choice is that I hope you don't talk to someone's face that way, and get cocky on semantic detail after they bust your lip, because *they* think you called them an ass. People like that will bust your lip even harder as your reward.

You still aren't talking about music really imo, You are talking about the development of technology relating to making sub tones louder than they have ever been before. I guess that's new territory, not sure. No new frequency heard in music is being invented though. Maybe that's an art form, getting it loud, I'm trying to figure that out myself. Certainly it's useful in effects for motion picture soundtracks, if you enjoy being pummeled by subs. I remember that intro scene to the Motown flick with Pino Palladino playing a detuned bass. Interesting and very effective, but much more than that little bit and people are going to get sick and leave the show before it's over.

Art? If a con man junkie in NY can convince the world that his gigantic canvas of an unopened soup can is art, then certainly bassists wielding subcontra instruments with mega powerful extended low freq systems can be taken seriously as well. We'll see, it's a big old crazy world!:D
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I'm writing some music, just for you. Thank you for the inspiration.
 
#107
MR PC said:
Well. I doubt you can give an example of a meaningful piece of music that uses the sub contra tones, since your resorting to calling me an ass.

They exist. Try going to a great Cathedral, where there is a great pipe organ with great compositions being played by a master musician. No electricity involved there. Balance of the partials, not distorted electronic synths. Oliver Messian. Bach.

Try listening to "Cantus Articus" by the great Einojuhani Rautavaara. All acoustic music. Rich and beautiful music that isn't composed or played primaraly to prove a science experiment, or sell gear.

Sure different strokes, I can dig that. I have a feeling that the interest here is more about stimulating some booty call than anything serious. It's a phase when someone discovers any kind of physical power to move bodies with.

Peace, goodwill towards men..
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ElitisM_by_Insigma_zpse8c8eb81.jpg
 
#108
I love you guys....but not much music being offered as examples of the importance of this new art form.

J3X...no...I guess you've forgotten about the private time you and I shared at your pad...:D

D.A.R.K. That's nice, just be sure to be back before..umm.. dark..;)
 
#109
MR PC said:
Well. I doubt you can give an example of a meaningful piece of music that uses the sub contra tones, since your resorting to calling me an ass.

They exist. Try going to a great Cathedral, where there is a great pipe organ with great compositions being played by a master musician. No electricity involved there. Balance of the partials, not distorted electronic synths. Oliver Messian. Bach.

Try listening to "Cantus Articus" by the great Einojuhani Rautavaara. All acoustic music. Rich and beautiful music that isn't composed or played primaraly to prove a science experiment, or sell gear.

Sure different strokes, I can dig that. I have a feeling that the interest here is more about stimulating some booty call than anything serious. It's a phase when someone discovers any kind of physical power to move bodies with.

Peace, goodwill towards men..
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As a player how do you go about growth? Is it repetition or do you challenge yourself by changing patterns?

I had the distinct pleasure of listening to a privately owned pipe organ - it was dual-piped. It had metal and wood pipes as well as reeds and other modes/methods of conveyance. Stunning. It sounded great accompanied by a bass tuned an octave below B.

You do realize that at some point a pipe organ was a science experiment too, right?

Cantus Articus is a great piece to be sure - it was written 28 years before the C# string was made, so a comparison such as yours has no foundation.

It's a shame you are so jaded or stunted you cannot see and hear the merit in this kind of exploration. It is out there, it is getting better and it is not all about the gear or the people using it.
 
#110
Knucklehead, I remember you telling me about the fire in the basement of your house a few years ago. That's some heavy S*** and Karma man. Hope you are doing better now. LOve your gee-tar strings too.:)

Now, really. A supposed new musical language is being created, but so far there is more talk about science theory and equipment. No meaningful music. You are telling me it's a shame that I don't understand a language that doesn't exist outside of secret handshakes at this point.

I'm here for music. Some guy who lays claim to having serious connection to Ornette Coleman and a supposed "Higher Being" in his bio is sinking to making jokes about sleeping with another man's wife.

Now, that's low.

I can get as much meaning from listening to a macho super cowboy truck pull 3 miles away, as I can from listening to any kind of extended noodling bass guitar sounds. Same sound waves, same freqs, same vibe.

Is it music? I don't think so, at least not yet. That doesn't mean someone else doesn't think so, and I respect their opinion and taste. I think challenging this low tone concept ought to inspire further development. Pats on the back have never been the basis for any lasting territory in any art form.
 
#111
I have to say that although heavy music isnt my cup of tea as a 6 and 7 string bass player and also 8 and 9 string guitar player alternate tunings and lots of strings are constantly under attack!!!

Why does a piano have more than one octave then???

No body questions that.
 
#112
knuckle_head said:
You do realize that at some point a pipe organ was a science experiment too, right?

Cantus Articus is a great piece to be sure - it was written 28 years before the C# string was made, so a comparison such as yours has no foundation.
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Yeah, I knew a guy a little bit (my ex wifes Uncle) who serviced pipe organs all over the world. Mormons, Catholics, drug dealers with their own instruments. You name it, he was the first call in that world. Really. Had a few interesting conversations with him about the low tones. Strange, what those low tones might of done to him..a very eccentric fellow. I'm being charitable saying that.

I'm not talking about string gauges. That's just gear talk. It's cool that you can make and sell these strings. I'm glad you have a market, I'm glad you are excited about it.

I'm talking about music. 28 years is irrelevant in terms of composing music...great music is timeless. Or is it not? Is Metal music oldies now?
 
#113
You have me confused with someone else - no dwelling I've ever resided in has burned.

It isn't a language - it's a voice. A voice, as you have aptly pointed out, that is not necessarily new. There are numerous instruments that have similar if not identical ranges and yet we do not forsake brass for woodwinds, nor reeds for strings.

This is no exclusive club. There are no secret handshakes. My explorations - mistakes and all - have been very public. Jauqo's have been too. Show me yours.

You insist on making this personal, when the original topic is not. The original positor asked merely why. The answer is because. Nothing personal required.

This was Jauqo's idea so far as bass is concerned so he is going to come up in conversation. His why's pertain. So do anyone else's why if they have bothered to explore it.

How many sub- or sub-contra musicians can you name? How many have you heard beyond Jauqo? This voice has existed for only a dozen years. By your measure we should have had bass virtuosos by 1950 seeing as the electric bass guitar was first available for purchase in 1937. Name me one.

See no merit in it? Dandy - you are entitled to your opinion and are free to not make use of it. Go attend your truck pull - you are likely among friends there.
 
#115
MR PC said:
NO need to attend truck pulls. The ones 3 miles away are plenty loud!
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Nice - answer the questions;

Where are your explorations? Point us to what you do. Tell us how you are contributing beyond your statements here.

What other artists are you basing your disdain for sub-contra work on? Is Jauqo your only exposure to it?

Can you name me ANY electric bass virtuosos from 1950?
 
#117
JAUQO III-X said:
None of the above is true at all.


Here are some tracks from my first solo CD The Low C# Theory. If possible give the tracks a listen with headphones.

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I find this to be a much better example of incorporating the low extended range into something musical. There are actual melodic compositions with structure, and I can hear and feel those low notes.

It's funny, when I saw the title to this thread I thought the OP was referring to a low B tuned up a whole step. I didn't know extended range basses went THAT low.
 
#118
Stingray5 said:
It's funny, when I saw the title to this thread I thought the OP was referring to a low B tuned up a whole step. I didn't know extended range basses went THAT low.
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They go lower still . . . this experiment only got started a dozen years back. Reproduction, recording and home/mobile listening are making it more viable all the time.

The more and better we can hear what we are doing the better the artistry will get imo.
 
#119
MR PC said:
Yeah, I knew a guy a little bit (my ex wifes Uncle) who serviced pipe organs all over the world. Mormons, Catholics, drug dealers with their own instruments. You name it, he was the first call in that world. Really. Had a few interesting conversations with him about the low tones. Strange, what those low tones might of done to him..a very eccentric fellow. I'm being charitable saying that.

I'm not talking about string gauges. That's just gear talk. It's cool that you can make and sell these strings. I'm glad you have a market, I'm glad you are excited about it.

I'm talking about music. 28 years is irrelevant in terms of composing music...great music is timeless. Or is it not? Is Metal music oldies now?
Click to expand...

You are incredibly close-minded as to how material culture is created and valued. Importance is in the ear of the listener.

By your own opinion, your own opinion is irrelevant. Unless you've been around since some Christian d-bags a few centuries ago decided to write down and define Western music in a certain way.

These classics you speak of... I'm sure there was some obnoxious dude saying "Oh, that's not music, that's not important, that's just pushing new technology on the world" back when massive pipe organs were being built... hell, when someone started banging two sticks together and making a rhythm, there was a pre-human hominid with a similar thought.

Chill out, and quit being an elitist, blowhard.
 
#120
JAUQO3-X

Don't get hooked-in by trolls.

I ocassionally fall for trolls [ BG/ BFM cult crowd] when someone baits me..I passionately defend my stance...when I really don't have to prove anything to anyone..just posting my opinions. OH ..BUT DON'T DARE TO EVER DISPUTE ANYONES STATED FACTS..LOL..

I will never convince them that I hear what I hear and they will never convince me regardless of their 'facts' ...science and physics.

They may just be having a laugh... and no real concern otherwise..just an 'intellectual' perspective on an argument.
 
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