Why have a nice rig just to be run direct?

[BurningSkies]

In recording, he also didn't run 'direct' in our modern sense. The classic Motown DI was very far from a clean send and much more of a color generating preamp.

 

[JimmyM]

In recording, he also didn't run 'direct' in our modern sense. The classic Motown DI was very far from a clean send and much more of a color generating preamp.

The Detroit stuff, yes. The LA stuff...not so much. The preamp didn't make it out to LA and a lot of folks who hired Jamerson wanted to mic his B-15. And a lot of the stuff Jamerson cut in LA was heavy duty.

 

[BurningSkies]

Even the Detroit stuff... That tube DI broke up and colored the sound just as much as an amp.

 

[JimmyM]

Tru dat.

I had to laugh at the comments about Ampeg not being "accurate," BTW. What is accurate, anyway? I plug into most Ampeg gear, I get a sound I love. I'd say that's pretty accurate.

 

[okcrum]

Well, OK as long as you don't do anything to your tone that deviates from the correct, established bass tone that is appropriate for all styles and genres then you're good. And make sure you don't make any changes to your (correct) tone after the gig starts, you might be mistaken for a guitarist.

You Branson guys are a breath of fresh air. Marvelous Marvin says hi y'all.

 

[okcrum]

Tru dat.

I had to laugh at the comments about Ampeg not being "accurate," BTW. What is accurate, anyway? I plug into most Ampeg gear, I get a sound I love. I'd say that's pretty accurate.

I ran two Ampeg heads slaved through a couple of Seismic 2x15 and was told by the headliner that it copped that Ampeg sound very accurately. Hope this helps...

 

[JimmyM]

You know it does, Chuck!

 

[peledog]

One of the 'benefits' of running a TC Electronic RH450 DI, is that I use the 'post' setting with my EQ which includes the great TubeTone. In general, my tone is mid-heavy - and this is what goes to the board from the amp's DI. I mainly use my Spector Euro 5LX or my Spector Rebop 4. So I get the tubey effect and mid-range I want - and I tell this to the sound guy before soundcheck so he knows what he's getting. I don't change any settings on the amp, just some on the bass preamp - not much, just a touch.

I've never had an issue with FOH, just on stage monitors and the clash of the 'low mids' where the guitar players need to have a lots of bass on their mic'd amps, which totally messes with the sound spectrum on stage.

 

[Korladis]

Tru dat.

I had to laugh at the comments about Ampeg not being "accurate," BTW. What is accurate, anyway? I plug into most Ampeg gear, I get a sound I love. I'd say that's pretty accurate.

Yeah... accurate to what? By what measurement?

I think of my bass sound as the sound of my bass through my amp through my cab... all are parts of getting the tone I love... so a clean DI from the bass would actually be a highly inaccurate representation of my overall bass sound.

 

[smeet]

Forcing an electric bassist to go DI is like close-micing a concert violinist and disregarding the reverberation of the concert hall, which is really part of the instrument.

I've gone the same route as BurningSkies. My amp is still part of my sound, but my speaker cabinet is not. I give FOH a post-eq DI, and so far it has worked for everyone. Sometimes, the sound person says something like "can you take down 200 Hz a bit, it's booming in the house?" and I immediately comply. Does FOH sound just like my amp? The recordings seem to indicate it's pretty close. Anyway, it's a way for me to give them the signal I want, and for them to minimize their effort. So we each get what we want, without fussing or fighting.

 

[BoogieZK]

Ampeg, like Ashdown or Mesa are parts of colored sounds.

If you mic a fEARful, that's non-sense because the goal of theses cabs is to be transparent.
I understand the micing of colored cabs.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

What if you're running a cranked 50 watt tube head through that fEARful? Micing it doesn't seem like such a bad idea all of a sudden.

 

[BoogieZK]

What if you're running a cranked 50 watt tube head through that fEARful? Micing it doesn't seem like such a bad idea all of a sudden.

Yep, but you'll cut out the tweeter, and the fEARful will sounds like a regular 15" or 12".
In this case, the fearful would be a bad choice, don't you think?

Micing a cab means that you place it every time on the same spot if you want to capture your sound.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't know if that's true. I haven't tried to mic a fEarful but I've miced cabs with tweeters before, and the tweeter sound always makes it to the mic. I would agree that most 3-way cab users probably wouldn't mic, but some do, and they don't seem to have a problem getting the whole cab picked up with close micing. Greenboy's discussed micing before and he's done it and says it's very possible to pick up the whole cab with one mic.

 

[ThisBass]

Except that the sound coming out of my speakers is as important to my tone as the sound from the pickups. All are components in what I regard as my tone. Tone does not stop at the bass's output jack.

At the output jack the tone is as most accurate as it can be.
It does not mean that the tone is as most musical as it can be.

 

[Korladis]

At the output jack the tone is as most accurate as it can be.
It does not mean that the tone is as most musical as it can be.

Except that it isn't accurate to how I like my sound at all. So no, it's not accurate. It's highly inaccurate, if anything.

 

[ThisBass]

Actually that's a pretty reasonable position. It doesn't fully address the issue, but it's reasonable.

BUT, where (IMO) your argument fails is that it assumes the majority of soundmen are reasonable folks who will respond favorably to such an approach. I submit that this is not the case. Some will, but most will not.

I recall on some engagements which we refused because the PA support was totally unknown in the moment of local promoters offer.
We ask for details of PA support before we accept. If the PA support seems dubious so we tend to refuse.
I have no need to accept every engagement I could get.
Sometimes it is better to quit.

 

[ThisBass]

Except that it isn't accurate to how I like my sound at all. So no, it's not accurate. It's highly inaccurate, if anything.

There are a very lot of synonyms possible for translation of accurate.
All of the synonyms tell the same. Accurate and all it's possible synonyms means the opposite of alteration.
Coloring a signal means altering a signal. No altering at all means no coloring at all which then means highly accurate.

However a highly accurate signal does not automatically fit to the sonic conditions on stage or front of house.

 

[bass71]

Heres a little story.

I play an old heavyish P with old flats fingerstyle and it has a beautiful thick mid rangey tone. We did an outdoor gig on a big stage couple of years back. Sound on stage coming out of my rig was just right, nice and thick with cut, I was di'd direct no mic.

When I watched a pro video of the show I was floored! and shocked. I sounded like I had the treble turned right up bass down and playing a set of brand new rounds.....it was incredibly clangy and thin.....sound guys huh? lol

 

[ThisBass]

If a home stereo cab performs with a minimum of phase and group delay and with a flat response as well and a minimum of dispersion means those cabs perform with a high accuracy.
But cabs for instruments are very different animals. Those cabs generally can't perform accurate. There are some exceptions out there but, those accurate cabs may be easily replaced by a DI.