Double Bass Why hide glue?

[unbrokenchain]

This is why hide glue.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

I’m getting a message...from the Great Beyond...your future holds the reek of vinegar, lots of scraping with razor blades, and terribly foul language.

 

[unbrokenchain]

At least I'm proud of my improvised steamer, a hose from a bike pump on the top of a pressure cooker with the little basketball nozzle in it...

The neck came out clean, the block on the other hand...

 

[unbrokenchain]

I should say "intact," not clean...

 

[Steven Ayres]

Is that a Kay I spy?

 

[unbrokenchain]

Yep, it's a 69 C1, played it for a busy year and a half but was always a little concerned about the neck joint. Came time to sell or trade it, actually I was just setting it up to take pics, started picking at the wood filler around the neck joint and realized there was 1/8" gap or so. Can't leave well enough alone I guesss... Hopefully I'm saving someone some trouble by getting to this myself instead of passing it on with a crappy old repair.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Don't know what this glue is, but they must have used the whole bottle

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Elmer’s wood glue. The strongest white vinegar you can find will plasticize it. Getting the residue out of the pores is the hard part. Hide glue doesn’t stick to that crap.

If the block is shot, Tom Link will sell you a new one made of yellow poplar. It will be a direct fit except for the mortise, which you’ll have to open up.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Got the neck halfway clean with the steam, vinegar, scraper and an electric toothbrush. The block is much more fibrous though, can't really get the glue out all the way. Theoretically I could glue the pieces of the block back into place, but it being poplar I can't imagine that being much of a sound repair, not gonna try that.

"What seems to have happened" is that the neck joint got loose, somebody pulled it out and re-inserted (read: pounded it in) it with a shim on one side. The shim was too much, causing the heel to pop up out of the dovetail and compromising the sides of the block. Since they used elmer's on that, they just proceeded to pour the rest of the bottle in the space between tenon and block, and for good measure put a screw in through the top of the rib lining on one side. Then they hid all of that with some wood filler and touch up paint.

Hmm.. Gonna sleep on this one. I know what the proper repair looks like, but not sure I have the skills, tools, or time to do it well. If I thought I could do it without popping the top... May end up selling it in pieces for much less, but honestly I feel better about that than having to say "I don't know what's up with the neck heel.., but if you fixed it the overstand would be right..."

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

If the block cheeks aren’t intact, I’d call it trashed.

Ask me how I know.

Call James Condino before you get in any deeper.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Maybe shoulda put this in the setup/repair as I'm not building anything new. @james condino I'll be callin ya today

 

[unbrokenchain]

Welp, James says rebuild the block. So, I'm doing my best. Screwed it up twice and steamed it back apart immediately, I think it's right now... I love hide glue.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Block is getting there, I think it's going to be a matter of gluing in shims and then trimming them back with chisel and sandpaper. The plan is to get as tight of a traditional joint as I can, but since the cheeks were broken there'll be a couple lags with wide washers into the heel from the inside and through the block. James says this can be done through the endpin hole, sounds like voodoo to me. The holes will be drilled and tapped prior to gluing.

Man I thought getting the neck out was tough. Ha, getting the fingerboard off the neck took me the entire afternoon... seemed like a different kind of glue on that one, had to get it really hot and squirt vinegar in every little crevice. James said I didn't need to remove the fingerboard, but I want to be able to see the bottom of the neck tenon in its joint, and I want to put a decent tapered shim in behind the fb to fatten up the neck a little and kick out the overstand. I mean, going through all this trouble anyway, might as well make it right. I'm comfortable (enough) doing all of it except the stuff through the endpin hole.

At first I was kicking myself for getting into all this, really I should be working on my house this week. But it's way more fun than that, and it's pretty cool to have a project that's not a cheapo bass-shaped object but not some 1800s masterpiece either. Just enough incentive to do it right and take my time. I see what's happening, though.. I'm gonna spend so much energy making this thing play right that I won't want to sell it anymore...

 

[james condino]

'Lurking and consulting offline...

The idea of using your (hopefully the retired one) electric toothbrush for glue removal is brilliant!

This bass lives just a few blocks down the street; we should have the neck all back together by the weekend....

j

 

[bassedsouth]

Hi , you mention increasing overstand ..... someone please correct me if I'm wrong but won't a shim just increase the neck angle not the overstand ?

 

[unbrokenchain]

Hi , you mention increasing overstand ..... someone please correct me if I'm wrong but won't a shim just increase the neck angle not the overstand ?

The shim is to go under the fingerboard, not in the neck joint

 

[robobass]

Hi , you mention increasing overstand ..... someone please correct me if I'm wrong but won't a shim just increase the neck angle not the overstand ?

You are right if the fingerboard shim is flat, but you can also make a tapered shim. I do it on a table saw.

 

[bassedsouth]

You are right if the fingerboard shim is flat, but you can also make a tapered shim. I do it on a table saw.

Ok , so with a tapered shim will you have to thin the back of the original neck proportionately ?

 

[charlie monroe]

Ok , so with a tapered shim will you have to thin the back of the original neck proportionately ?

OP has the stated goals of fattening up the neck a little and kicking out the overstand a bit.
He will probably not adjust the profile of the back of the neck.

 

[bassedsouth]

OP has the stated goals of fattening up the neck a little and kicking out the overstand a bit.
He will probably not adjust the profile of the back of the neck.

Im interested in what the standard procedure is when adding a tapered shim