Why I don't like onboard EQ

[Mike M.]

I gigged for years with my old setup, which was a passive Jazz bass thru an SVT. That was a very long time ago and I loved it. Fast forward to now where I play on occasion at church using my SR505 thru my GK MB 115 and I love that setup as well. I personally find the onboard EQ to be very helpful for those little tweaks that are needed.

This is not aimed at anyone in particular, so don't get yer undies in a bunch. I really don't get the hate that some folks have towards the preamps/pickups in some of the Ibanez basses. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone at all, but I've gotten nothing but compliments about the sound I get from other musicians who've heard me. Not saying it's the best either because I also admit that I'm not familiar with other preamp designs that are out there. Just saying that I think it all works pretty good.

 

[Raymeous]

Everyone has their opinion...

...and every one is just as valid and invalid as everyone elses. For me I like having a built in EQ, but that's because I love the versatility.

I would like to address a couple of comments and mention my observations so far. As far as the EQ messing with your volume, that's what an active EQ does, otherwise it would just be a tone control. It boosts or cuts your volume by up to 18db per frequency depending on your preamp. Well if you boost you bass and treble controls without cutting mids (or vise versa) you will have to adjust your volume control to keep your overall volume about the same.

In regards to being heard on stage, your EQ has everything to do with it. Unfortunately most folks seem to go through the "MUST HAVE MORE VOLUME TO BE HEARD" thing, myself included. In my experience the frequencies of what's happening on stage plays almost as big a role as shear volume of whether or not you will be heard. If everyone is crowding around the same freqs, it will be really hard to distinguish one instrument from another in a loud rock gig. That's the reason why in a heavily distorted drop tuned metal band the bass player usually has a very "clanky" bass sound. If they didn't they'd just be contributing to the mush. By adjusting the EQ a bit they can stick out and be heard without any real increase in volume or amp rig.

In regards to how often people adjust their basses built in EQ, I would say it all depends on what you're doing. Different songs, have different feels, and to me that means different tones. For the slower stuff I like a warmer sound while with faster tunes I like having a bit more cut and definition. I also have been known to adjust the EQ between verses and choruses, just to accent a particular feature of that section. It's really no different than going from a bridge pickup to a neck pickup in terms of complexity.

I have both active and passive basses, and I expect my P-bass to sound a certain way, and I expect my Carvin and Ibanez basses to sound different from the P. What can I say, I like the versatily.

 

[Gaius46]

I don't understand this idea of fiddling with the EQ during a gig. What you hear on the stage isn't usually what the audience is hearing so unless you actually walk out onto the floor while playing or have someone on the floor judging your sound for you, you really don't have any idea what changes you're making to your tone.

I walk out onto the floor during the soundcheck to hear what I sound like and make whatever adjustments are needed to my tone and leave it alone. The acoustics are going to change once people are packing the place but that's definitely better than going by what I hear with my amp pointed at my knees.

I'll use the eq or tone controls on the bass as a last resort. My head has a parametric EQ so that's first choice. Second choice is the EQ in the effects processor I use.

 

[kraigo]

...I'm not real high on Ibanez in general - other than maybe the Geo Benson & Metheny guitars..., haven't played one of their basses tht I liked in years....

I've got a Artcore that's not too bad. I wouldn't mind trying out the King Bass. Ibanez's attempts at modern basses don't do anything for me (YMMV), but their attempts at retro aren't bad at all.

KO

 

[Selta]

I don't understand this idea of fiddling with the EQ during a gig. What you hear on the stage isn't usually what the audience is hearing so unless you actually walk out onto the floor while playing or have someone on the floor judging your sound for you, you really don't have any idea what changes you're making to your tone.

Actually, I do, considering my IEMs are from FOH. But my gig isn't your typical gig at all. We don't show up at a bar, with crappy PA and an unknown for a soundguy at all. My soundguy knows my tone just as well as I do, and while he has absolute control for what the audience gets, unless I go totally nuts and start wrecking havoc out there, he leaves it alone.

 

[kraigo]

Sometimes you really can't hear yourself in an ensemble. On those occasions having a way to boost mids or dial back low end can come in really handy. I'm usually close enough to the amp that I can do it there.

KO

I did want some feedback. Since, because of the above reasons, I don't really see why anyone would want onboard EQ for any reason except that they like to change their sound mid-song.

Also, after some of the topics I've seen on this forum...this didn't seem like nearly as much of a waste of space as some of the other threads I've seen...just MO.

Later:

Right but just boosting the mid control on my bass because I suddenly am not cutting through enough is also going to change my overall sound, possibly to something I don't want. If just being heard is my priority, than why would it matter what my tone sounds like?

Actually, when I can't hear myself I don't really give a damn what my tone is, as long as I can hear it.

I suspect that the people who use active EQ on a bass regularly have a pretty good feel for tweaking quickly. I typically don't like the way on board preamps sound. I've used good ones. I still haven't found one I like. Different strokes and all.

KO

 

[Rockmusician]

I set my amp up, and then modify the tone from my bass. It makes switches basses at a gig much easier.

I do pretty much the same thing. I set up my amp and eq it with the bass controls flat. Then tweak my tone using the bass according to the song I am playing.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Actually, I do, considering my IEMs are from FOH. But my gig isn't your typical gig at all. We don't show up at a bar, with crappy PA and an unknown for a soundguy at all. My soundguy knows my tone just as well as I do, and while he has absolute control for what the audience gets, unless I go totally nuts and start wrecking havoc out there, he leaves it alone.

What IEM setup do you use? Is it reasonably easy to get the sound-person to incorporate it into a gig?

I do play bars and smaller clubs where it's not necessary, but it'd be nice to really hear everything that's happening tone-wise with the band as it's happening. Most guitarists I share the stage with could use a tone change to mesh better with the rest of the band and venue, and that's tough to fix in a regular rehearsal setting.

 

[JehuJava]

Reason #1: Most onboard EQ is very limited. Most preamps have shelving EQ. You turn the bass knob up and ALL the bass frequencies get louder. You turn it down and they ALL get quieter. Same goes for treble. I like to control exactly which groups of frequencies get louder/quieter and by how much. You could just say "why not bypass the EQ?" This may come as a surprise to some of you, but most active basses out there don't have bypass switches. Also, while you can just run them flat, you can't always do so very easily.

This may come as a surprise to you, but most EQ's on bass guitars are not the kind purpose built for tweaking exact frequencies. Sorry...but they're not. You'll never understand them if that's what you're trying to do with them or even WANT them to do. If you are die hard for tweaking an exact frequency get an outboard EQ that does what you want. There are a ton of 'em out there.

An example would be the "style sweeper" on the Ibanez 300 series soundgears. It either scoops the mids (pretty severely) when set to "slap", or, it boosts them slightly when set to "finger". In order to set it "flat", you have to turn the knob to about "3". Which brings me to my next point:

Sounds pretty easy to me. Put the knob on 3.

Reason #2: I, personally, do not ever use EQ knobs on a bass in an "inbetween" setting. Meaning, I either have them at 0/1 or 10.

Sounds like your cutting off your nose to spite your face. You hate onboard EQ, so you're gonna set it at the max range possible just so you don't bump them. And you like the sound of your bass with your knobs set at either 0 or 10?

Why? Because I don't want them to get moved when I've found the best spot for them.

So you do like them at 0 or 10!

Let's say I really liked my bass knob at about six.

I thought you liked 0 or 10?

Then I'm playing and my hand slips or I bump into something and the knob gets spun out of whack. I don't want that to happen!

So you'd rather have a bad tone than fix your technique? I can see why you wouldn't want that to happen too. Bad tone is way better than good technique.

So, I tend to just min/max with EQ knobs on the bass. Also, I don't want to have to remember exactly where to set the knob for it to sound the best.

Lesser men have commited 26 letters, 100 numbers, thousands of words, what time their favorite TV show comes on (and on what channel), what the web address of talkbass.com is, what the hell LOL OMG ROTFLMAO IMO FWIW means, how to tie shoe laces, and...hold on...righty tighty lefty loosey to memory. Yup you're right. There is no more room for what your knob settings are. And what about your amp settings? Or your pedal settings (if you use pedals...you may not)?

Or just duct tape them down.

Reason #3: They change the total output level of your bass. I run sound at my church and it's a pain when the guitar players switch pedals and their volume is different. It just makes mixing that much harder.

They should check the levels of each pedal during sound check. That's why most have an output control on them somwhere. Plus the clean and dirty channels of the amp. Or are they set it and forget guys too?

Wait a minute. Isn't that what a sound guy is being paid to do (or at least signed upto do)...monitor the sound and fix problems? So you wanna be a sound guy that shows up, does a sound check, and goes out for a smoke during the show?

I like my output level to be the same no matter what. At least from my bass itself. That's why I have my volume knob at 10 all of the time. I don't want my bass to suddenly be louder because I boosted the bass knob.

Um...your bass is not louder, but the frequencies YOU just BOOSTED are. But I thought you don't change EQ settings mid-song? I thought you use 0 or 10? Should be a non-issue, right? Or is it that crazy right hand technique where a flailing finger accidentally changes the bass knob from 0 to 10?

I don't mind if my "end sound", the sound heard by the audience, changes.

Would not a volume change constitute the sound heard by the audience, AKA: the "end sound"? Just as long as you don't hear the "end sound" change...

It's the signal level going to the rest of my equipment that I want to have remain constant.

Fair enough

Reason #4: It's just too complicated. I'm a set it and forget it kind of guy. I find one tone that I like and use it exclusively. Some people like the versatility. That's great for them, but not for me.

So set it flat, duct tape it in position and forget it. But maybe in the future you will think differently about EQ...especially if you ever play in more than one venue, your bass tone shifts slightly because it's been raining for two weeks straight, or you get a wild hair up you butt to try an "new" sound.

Give me a bass with one knob, I'm happy.

/end rant

Interestingly enough, I have a one knob bass for sale in the classifieds right now!!

 

[Selta]

What IEM setup do you use? Is it reasonably easy to get the sound-person to incorporate it into a gig?

I do play bars and smaller clubs where it's not necessary, but it'd be nice to really hear everything that's happening tone-wise with the band as it's happening. Most guitarists I share the stage with could use a tone change to mesh better with the rest of the band and venue, and that's tough to fix in a regular rehearsal setting.

I have a couple of sets of earbuds... still trying to find ones that I really really "love". The system itself is a Carvin rockmount one... I don't know the exact model off the top of my head. One of the best investments a band can make... even one playing a bar gig. Lets you really tighten up, hear the sound for what it is, and not have insane stage volume (that ends up spilling over FOH!).

 

[JehuJava]

I...have no experience...

This, to me, is the problem. Whole lot of rant for very little experience. The advice being given on this site is from many folks with more experience playing than you have living...just saying.

 

[lunarpollen]

I'm very happy with the EQ controls on my active bass (Yamaha BB1200S). First off, there's a pre-amp bypass switch should I desire to go passive. But the EQ controls are three knobs, one each for lows, mids, and highs. There is a center detent position for each knob, and when all three knobs are centered with the pre-amp engaged, the signal is identical to passive mode. The frequency bands and +/- ranges of each knob are well-conceived and give the bass a huge amount of versatility; i.e., lots of usable tones. I have different settings I like to use for particular songs, and they are all easily dialed-in in a matter of seconds.

I can imagine that many other on-board pre-amps and EQs aren't necessarily as well-voiced or designed, at least for my tastes.

 

[JehuJava]

I see this response all the time on TB and people just don't seem to get it.

I like the bass that has onboard EQ. I like my Ibanez basses. The one thing I don't like is the onboard EQ. Why would I get another bass that I dislike for completely different reasons when one change could make me like everything about my Ibanez?

Do you LIKE the tone of your bass? If the bass plays nice and looks nice, but sounds like donkey dung because you can't work the EQ, then you don't like THE bass.

I've traded away more nice basses, because I couldn't get the sound I wanted...and they were awesome basses...just not for me.

 

[KingRazor]

This may come as a surprise to you, but most EQ's on bass guitars are not the kind purpose built for tweaking exact frequencies. Sorry...but they're not. You'll never understand them if that's what you're trying to do with them or even WANT them to do. If you are die hard for tweaking an exact frequency get an outboard EQ that does what you want. There are a ton of 'em out there.

Exactly, I want an outboard EQ with more options. I have no use for shelving EQ. I don't ever have a reason to boost or cut ALL of the frequencies above or below a certain point. That's what I use filters for.

Sounds pretty easy to me. Put the knob on 3.

I can only guess where "3" is because there's no detent there. Plus, if that knob moves, I won't know where it is, so I'll have to put it back to 1 and then try to find "3" again. More effort than I'd like to put in for such a small adjustment. It's just easier to leave it at 1. Would be easier if the knob had numbers on it.

I thought you liked 0 or 10?

No, I put it at 0 or 10 because it's simpler. I don't have to think about it. Also, when a knob is all the way in one position it's not as prone to movement.

So you'd rather have a bad tone than fix your technique? I can see why you wouldn't want that to happen too. Bad tone is way better than good technique.

Nothing is wrong with my technique. I don't want bad tone. I don't just flail my hand about wildly or anything, I just have noticed that sometimes after I've been playing for a bit, my knobs will have "shifted" from their original positions if I have them sitting in the middle somewhere unless they have a detent. I find this comment rather condescending. Who wants bad tone?

Lesser men have commited 26 letters, 100 numbers, thousands of words, what time their favorite TV show comes on (and on what channel), what the web address of talkbass.com is, what the hell LOL OMG ROTFLMAO IMO FWIW means, how to tie shoe laces, and...hold on...righty tighty lefty loosey to memory. Yup you're right. There is no more room for what your knob settings are. And what about your amp settings? Or your pedal settings (if you use pedals...you may not)?

Or just duct tape them down.

I don't need to memorize amp settings because I only have to glance at them to know where they're at. I can't tell where the unmarked knobs are on my bass just by looking at them.

They should check the levels of each pedal during sound check. That's why most have an output control on them somwhere. Plus the clean and dirty channels of the amp. Or are they set it and forget guys too?

Wait a minute. Isn't that what a sound guy is being paid to do (or at least signed upto do)...monitor the sound and fix problems? So you wanna be a sound guy that shows up, does a sound check, and goes out for a smoke during the show?

I'm making constant changes while I mix. When the guitar players are changing volume all the time, I have to stop working on the overall mix and address the sudden volume difference with the guitar. If they keep their volume consistent, I can focus more on the main mix.

Um...your bass is not louder, but the frequencies YOU just BOOSTED are. But I thought you don't change EQ settings mid-song? I thought you use 0 or 10? Should be a non-issue, right? Or is it that crazy right hand technique where a flailing finger accidentally changes the bass knob from 0 to 10?

When you boost those frequencies, it affects your overall volume as well. I don't change EQ settings mid-song, but I might if it was more subtle, like a PEQ. Also, when the knobs do shift, it's never something so drastic like 0 to 10. More like 6 to 7.

Would not a volume change constitute the sound heard by the audience, AKA: the "end sound"? Just as long as you don't hear the "end sound" change...

Like I said, and like you appear to agree with below, I like the signal level going to the rest of my equipment to remain consistent.

Fair enough

So set it flat, duct tape it in position and forget it. But maybe in the future you will think differently about EQ...especially if you ever play in more than one venue, your bass tone shifts slightly because it's been raining for two weeks straight, or you get a wild hair up you butt to try an "new" sound.

There's no way I'm going to put duct tape on my bass, that just looks tacky. Besides, why do all of that when I can just make the bass passive?

 

[MatticusMania]

Just buy a bass and rewire it to bypass all your knobs! Then you can turn knobs so people think youre altering your tone but youre not.

 

[KingRazor]

Actually, I just now a few minutes ago did what Ray Salamon suggested and rewired the hot leads of each pickup to the output jack.

Presto! No knobs. Bass sounds the same. So, while the tone still isn't great, the bass doesn't sound any worse than it did with the EQ and I don't have to fuss with the knobs. I'm happy.

I'm far more concerned with playability and comfort than tone anyway. Tone can be improved with better pickups.

 

[JehuJava]

Exactly, I want an outboard EQ with more options. I have no use for shelving EQ. I don't ever have a reason to boost or cut ALL of the frequencies above or below a certain point. That's what I use filters for.

Solution 1 to the problem.

I can only guess where "3" is because there's no detent there. Plus, if that knob moves, I won't know where it is, so I'll have to put it back to 1 and then try to find "3" again.

This is exactly what I do before I play to verify that the ebbs and floods caused by the moon's tidal influence have not moved my knob 1/128 of a turn.

More effort than I'd like to put in for such a small adjustment.

If 5 seconds of time is not worth verifying your settings, then TB can be of no further assistance to you.

It's just easier to leave it at 1. Would be easier if the knob had numbers on it.

Replacement knobs can be found abundantly on the internet. I have saved you your 5 seconds and provided you this link.

Link Removed

Now please go verify your settings

No, I put it at 0 or 10 because it's simpler. I don't have to think about it. Also, when a knob is all the way in one position it's not as prone to movement.

Really? What makes a knob more prone to movement by being in the middle? Either it moves or it doesn't. It's not a balancing act. Is this a problem for anyone else?

I can't tell where the unmarked knobs are on my bass just by looking at them.

There are planty of creative ways that cost little or no money to fix this problem. Little dots of white out, little pieces of tape, marker, etc. People with huge pedal boards tend to mark their settings...but then again we're talking about 100's of knobs vice 4 or 5.

I'm making constant changes while I mix. When the guitar players are changing volume all the time, I have to stop working on the overall mix and address the sudden volume difference with the guitar. If they keep their volume consistent, I can focus more on the main mix.

Have you said, "Hey man, please make sure all your pedals are adjusted to the same level?"

Plus dealing with one musician's volume IS dealing with the overall mix.

When you boost those frequencies, it affects your overall volume as well.

Yes, because you just boosted the volume of a span of frequencies.

I don't change EQ settings mid-song, but I might if it was more subtle, like a PEQ...More like 6 to 7.

Your ears are that calibrated that you can tell a 1% shift in a certain range of freqs? Maybe in the bedroom, but probably not in a hardcore band.

There's no way I'm going to put duct tape on my bass, that just looks tacky.

No duh.

Besides, why do all of that when I can just make the bass passive?

Bingo...solution number 2...coincidentally this was mentioned on page 1 of this thread.


Look, you're getting insulting replies because you presented a problem and ignored the response given to you while continuing to argue that no one understands you. The fixes to your problems are within these pages...we understand you...but no one is going to go out and invent onboard parametric EQ that fits inside your Ibanez and give it to you prewired, plug and play like.

Wait...onboard PEQ does exist...I wonder if there is a reason we don't see it used on every single bass ever created?

And for the record...I prefer shelving EQ.

 

[JehuJava]

I'm far more concerned with playability and comfort than tone anyway. Tone can be improved with better pickups.

Awesome!

 

[JehuJava]

Your ears are that calibrated that you can tell a 1% shift in a certain range of freqs?

Ok...it's actually 10%, but my point remains.

 

[JehuJava]

I'm happy.

Wheeeew!