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Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method

#301
I agree...I play with a pick with my Rickenbackers (and have been for well over 35 years).

I play, for the most part, like a guitar player when I am picking - whether rightly or wrongly - I do it because it works for me. So far, after all these years, no CTS.

Will it come back one day to bite me on the a$%?? Who knows...but it had better hurry - I ain't gettin no younger and I've damn sure got more years behind me than in front of me...:D

additionally, I have always used medium picks (.88 Cool Brand) and have never experienced any problem...however, when I have tried some of the thicker picks - they really felt weird......so, back to the .88s
 
#302
Buster Brown said:
I agree...I play with a pick with my Rickenbackers (and have been for well over 35 years).

I play, for the most part, like a guitar player when I am picking - whether rightly or wrongly - I do it because it works for me. So far, after all these years, no CTS.

Will it come back one day to bite me on the a$%?? Who knows...but it had better hurry - I ain't gettin no younger and I've damn sure got more years behind me than in front of me...:D

additionally, I have always used medium picks (.88 Cool Brand) and have never experienced any problem...however, when I have tried some of the thicker picks - they really felt weird......so, back to the .88s
Click to expand...

Same here. I started using a pick in about 1972, and used one exclusively until about 1995. Then I played finger style on bass most of the time, but as I also play guitar, used a pick on that. Then in about 2005 I started using a pick on bass more and more.

Interestingly, I use a pick very differently on bass then on guitar. I play guitar like a guitarist, and bass like a bassist. I think that was from doing recordings and playing al the parts. I didn't want to sound like the same person playing both, or a guitarist playing bass, or a bassist playing guitar.

I have more pain issues playing with my fingers than a pick, because I used to pluck too hard (imitating both the snap I get with a pick, and Stanley Clarke and John Wetton.. they both bash the strings). This is what happened to Wetton. He had to use a pick because he could no longer play with his fingers.

That's how this thread got started, but it was based on the assumption that he injured himself playing with a pick. But he didn't, because he was never a pick player for most of his career.
 
#303
David, Wetton did use a pick all through Asia, and I think UK, too, though I can't remember. But I reread that article recently, and I noticed that he said his doctor said it was from playing. Could have been from before with the fingers, but his pick playing did him no favors.

Strato, glad to hear the Big Stubby is working out. I used to use them. Now I'm using Gator 2.0's, but I still like the Big Stubby. Heavy picks are a big part of the method. I do her method using thin or medium picks and get pains. With a heavy pick, nothing.

Pbass, I switched to light strings partially for the reasons you talked about. With mediums I have to pick right at the neck, but with lights I can go all the way up to the P pickup. I can deal with that. I don't need to go much farther back than that. Still can't palm mute, though. That starts hurting immediately.
 
#304
JimmyM said:
David, Wetton did use a pick all through Asia, and I think UK, too, though I can't remember.
Click to expand...

With Asia yes, but not in the beginning with UK or Crimson.

UK - In The Dead Of Night -1978

Damn shame they cut out Holdsworth's solo.

He did start to use a pick on the second UK album.

UK - NOTHING TO LOSE (HD)

But then here he is playing finger style again:

John Wetton and Phil Manzanera

Looks like mid 90s judging from his appearance.

While on the subject, here's KC with Wetton playing finger style, and the very best flat picker in the world: Robert Fripp. :bassist:

Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Part 1 - live
 
#305
Here's a YouTube video (linked from Carol's website) of an interview she did with Bass Player magazine. You can clearly see her picking method at work once she picks up her bass and starts playing. To me it doesn't look any different from a good guitarist's picking method, with the possible exception that she doesn't palm-mute. Note the string mute she had made down by the bridge.

BASS PLAYER: Carol Kaye Interview - YouTube

She's a very fluid and precise player with a pick, although I'm sure a half-century of playing might have something to do with it also! ;)
 
#306
stratovani said:
Here's a YouTube video (linked from Carol's website) of an interview she did with Bass Player magazine. You can clearly see her picking method at work once she picks up her bass and starts playing. To me it doesn't look any different from a good guitarist's picking method, with the possible exception that she doesn't palm-mute. Note the string mute she had made down by the bridge.
Click to expand...

Well she is a guitar player. She played guitar professionally for many years before taking up bass.

The only thing about this is you don't always want to pick that close to the fingerboard for tone reasons. You get a tighter tone picking closer to the bridge.

I like to pick right behind the neck pickup, or somewhere between the two pickups.
 
#307
I just watched her video - and that's how I use a pick when I (try) to play acoustic guitar. No wonder guitarists laugh at me and say they can tell I play bass lol

If you have a bass with the bell or pup cover (like on a P-bass) - I wonder if resting your wrist on it helps with CTS, in the way a lot of mouse pads have the wrist support built into them nowadays.
 
#310
stiles72 said:
If you have a bass with the bell or pup cover (like on a P-bass) - I wonder if resting your wrist on it helps with CTS, in the way a lot of mouse pads have the wrist support built into them nowadays.
Click to expand...

I got some advice from an orthopedist who is also a guitar and banjo player. His advice was to use good technique and switch things up. Fingerstyle sometimes, then use the pick for a while. It utilizes the connective tissue differently. For the fretboard hand, he suggested, good technique, and also moving the instrument to a more comfortable position. If the bass is down near your knees... you have a problem.
 
#311
SGD Lutherie said:
Thats what those covers are for!
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Actually, I will on occasion simply screw the pickup cover back on my Glaub if I need to play that way for a particular gig, or at a session. Heck, it takes about 30 seconds to put it back on! Maybe it would be cool to come up with a way to snap it in place . . .
I'll whip that sucker on there, slide a foam mute down by the bridge, and plunk away. Takes less than a minute to transform the bass like that!
I just don't care for the pickup cover for every other style I do--fingers, and picking farther down towards the bridge--gets in the way and limits my options for where I can pluck/pick.
 
#312
JimmyM said:
David, Wetton did use a pick all through Asia, and I think UK, too, though I can't remember. But I reread that article recently, and I noticed that he said his doctor said it was from playing. Could have been from before with the fingers, but his pick playing did him no favors.

Strato, glad to hear the Big Stubby is working out. I used to use them. Now I'm using Gator 2.0's, but I still like the Big Stubby. Heavy picks are a big part of the method. I do her method using thin or medium picks and get pains. With a heavy pick, nothing.

Pbass, I switched to light strings partially for the reasons you talked about. With mediums I have to pick right at the neck, but with lights I can go all the way up to the P pickup. I can deal with that. I don't need to go much farther back than that. Still can't palm mute, though. That starts hurting immediately.
Click to expand...

I saw Wetton with KC (the tour that the USA live album came from), and on the first UK tour (with Bruford/Holdsworth).
I'm pretty certain it was all fingers at those shows, but good lord he played HARD. I remember that clearly as I was sitting about 25 feet away from him at the UK show. Heavy strings prolly, hammering away like that--that could cause some trauma I expect.

I'm pretty hooked on heavy-ass strings too, but I can see how going lighter might make sense for long live sets and whatnot where the sonic subtleties between the different gauges don't matter as much. I'm always surprised by how light some guys go--like Lee Sklar--uses pretty darn light strings!
 
#313
pbass2 said:
I saw Wetton with KC (the tour that the USA live album came from), and on the first UK tour (with Bruford/Holdsworth).
I'm pretty certain it was all fingers at those shows, but good lord he played HARD. I remember that clearly as I was sitting about 25 feet away from him at the UK show. Heavy strings prolly, hammering away like that--that could cause some trauma I expect.
Click to expand...

I never got to see that version of Crimson, but you can hear how hard he played on the live tracks.

That was my favorite version of the band.
 
#314
I own about 15 CD sets from the late '72-'74 Crimso, and I just looked through all the booklets and all the pictures were fingers only. I did see one that looked like it might be a pick, but it was blurry, and a similar shot, less blurry, showed it was his thumb.

The video I've seen clearly shows that he tore into his bass. I thought I played hard!
 
#316
Bassmunnky said:
Jimmy,

E Gad..this is great. I do MOST of my work with a pick.

and far as Picking: Will Lee does mainly UPSTROKES!
Click to expand...
Will Lee's pick technique is insane! He holds it in front of two fingers and does upstrokes like he's plucking with two fingers. I asked him about it once on his website and he was like, "I don't recommend it but it works for me."
 
#319
JimmyM said:
Will Lee's pick technique is insane! He holds it in front of two fingers and does upstrokes like he's plucking with two fingers. I asked him about it once on his website and he was like, "I don't recommend it but it works for me."
Click to expand...

There's a video of Tony Levin with KC playing Lark's Tongue (part II) and he's playing with a pick, and also doing all up strokes. He's also holding it very oddly.

Invalid Link Removed

It's interesting that Wetton played it with his fingers, an in many ways played some of the faster parts better.
 

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