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Why isn't graphite more popular?

#61
zac2944 said:
I read through their site. They are a business-2-business supplier. They're not marketing a product to the consumer, but rather a design and manufacture service to the music instrument business.



That seems to be their deal. I'm sure it is no differernt than other MI parts suppliers. It is the name on the instrument which sells, not who manufactured it or where the work was done.

Their model sounds pretty smart to me. They do the design work here in the states, then have mold/composites shops in China do the manufacturing. There is a reason so many mold shops here in the states have gone out of business; cheap Chinese labor combined with CAD/CAM/CNC.
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Gotcha...Vaild point on the workmanship.

But thats going to be a little hard to have control of what the parts going to sound like unless you have already have done it.

If you have already have created a certain "formula" for the tone then something like this would be useful. The question is how many people have actually done that?

I know GG when through several different iterations before coming up what He did for Modulus and it still continued to evolve.

To play devils advocate here...I can see where a OEM could help a luthier, for instance Moses used to create Joe Zon's necks back in the day.
 
#63
TheBasicBassist said:
because the tone is in the wood. IMO.
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If that was the case, an all-graphite instrument with no wood, has no tone then?
The wood, the graphite, the pickups, the hardware, the electronics, the fingerboard, the strings, the shape of an instrument, the person playing it, even the adhesives used to glue parts together ALL contribute to tone. Just because you prefer an "all" wood, or certain type of wood even, doesn't mean that graphite does not create a tone. An electric bass is a composite of many different materials. Your "wood" bass is not exactly all "wood" is it? I'm pretty sure you can't find one without metal on it, or do you think the metal bridge and strings don't create tone either?
The tone of an instrument is created by every part of its construction, and while I'll grant you that certain parts can have a greater effect than others, its not just "the wood" or just the graphite (if it is a combo of wood and graphite) that creates an instrument's sound. If you don't prefer the tone of graphite, that's fine, to each his own, but use a rational that makes sense if you are stating a terse opinion.
 
#65
I think the main reason some players don't go with graphite is that they're pretty conservative. Nothing wrong with that - we can all like different things. And then, naturally, we find ways to justify what we like, by saying things like "graphite necks sound sterile" (still not sure how that works) or "the tone is in the wood" (or that, either).

Such statements aren't usually based on experience; they're just ways people find to feel comfortable with what they've decided to play. We all do this to some extent, I think...
 
#69
bassybill said:
Such statements aren't usually based on experience
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I think that sums up 99% of things on the interw3b. :p

I used to have an Adamas acoustic guitar with the composite bowl and a graphite top. Compared to an Ovation with a spruce top, it was a much more rich and resonant tone.

Looking back at Steinberger, they did indeed have a different tone from a Fender. Believe it or not, but the goal of some companies is actually to have their own sound. Ultimately, I think the graphite has some impact, but probably not quite as much as the electronics and strings.
 
#70
No way! I spoke to a Rainsong employee at NAMM one year and he said that they never had a bass model. I'll have to keep my ears and eyes open in case one of these pops up on EBay.

GBassNorth said:
I'm the lucky owner of one of a VERY FEW complete graphite acoustic/electric basses made by the Rainsong Guitar company. They made less than 10 of them, of which the one I now own was custom made for and owned by John Entwistle.
The entire bass is graphite - body, neck, fretboard. It plays fantastic, never needs a setup and is as warm and woody sounding as my all wood Breedlove acoustic/electric bass. Probably the biggest difference between the Rainsong and the Breedlove is the Rainsong has more projection and more sustain (and that's with the original Optima strings John had put on it back in 1998).
Rainsong indicated they no longer make graphite basses because the cost was too high and the volume too low, so after 9 or 10 units they called it quits and focused on graphite guitars (check em out, they're great sounding as well). I think they were selling the basses at about $5000 each back in the late 1990's.
Bottom line, if done right there's no more difference in the sound between a graphite and a wood bass than there is between any other two wood basses (in the electric mode there's even less difference). However, cost is an issue to deal with, or at least it was back in the late 90's. Maybe new manufacturing methods will break that barrier as well.
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#72
GBassNorth said:
I'm the lucky owner of one of a VERY FEW complete graphite acoustic/electric basses made by the Rainsong Guitar company. They made less than 10 of them, of which the one I now own was custom made for and owned by John Entwistle.
The entire bass is graphite - body, neck, fretboard. It plays fantastic, never needs a setup and is as warm and woody sounding as my all wood Breedlove acoustic/electric bass. Probably the biggest difference between the Rainsong and the Breedlove is the Rainsong has more projection and more sustain (and that's with the original Optima strings John had put on it back in 1998).
Rainsong indicated they no longer make graphite basses because the cost was too high and the volume too low, so after 9 or 10 units they called it quits and focused on graphite guitars (check em out, they're great sounding as well). I think they were selling the basses at about $5000 each back in the late 1990's.
Bottom line, if done right there's no more difference in the sound between a graphite and a wood bass than there is between any other two wood basses (in the electric mode there's even less difference). However, cost is an issue to deal with, or at least it was back in the late 90's. Maybe new manufacturing methods will break that barrier as well.
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I played one at NAMM in the late 90's an it was the most projected ABG I have ever tried. Did yours have the little hulu girl inlay on it?
 
#73
This is a topic without an end. Because of taste.

I dislike the clear tone of carbon composite necks. That's my opinion. So don't judge me by saying this.

I love the sound of wood. And that is not because I would be conservative but because I love the sound of wood. That's all.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Is this a conservative looking bass?

:ninja:
 
#76
OlafR said:
This is a topic without an end. Because of taste.

I dislike the clear tone of carbon composite necks. That's my opinion. So don't judge me by saying this.

I love the sound of wood. And that is not because I would be conservative but because I love the sound of wood. That's all.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Is this a conservative looking bass?

:ninja:
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That's all fine, I say. :)

I think there's a definite difference between saying "I like the sound of wood" and saying "graphite sounds sterile and colorless" or "the tone is in the wood". The first is simply a matter of preference, the second and third are derogatory and sound like attempts at self-justification. Just sayin'...
 
#77
bassybill said:
I think the main reason some players don't go with graphite is that they're pretty conservative. Nothing wrong with that - we can all like different things. And then, naturally, we find ways to justify what we like, by saying things like "graphite necks sound sterile" (still not sure how that works) or "the tone is in the wood" (or that, either).

Such statements aren't usually based on experience; they're just ways people find to feel comfortable with what they've decided to play. We all do this to some extent, I think...
Click to expand...

I think this is a good point. I don't see why so many seem to have the attitude of "it's got to be one or the other". I love my wood basses and I love my Status. When I pick up my Status, I'm not thinking "okay, now I'm going to play my graphite bass". It has it's own tone (one that is velvety, warm and articulate), just as my other basses have their own tones. One thing I can say is that my Status is a lot less "sterile" and brittle sounding to me than was my maple body/maple neck Streamer Stage I...
 
#79
Jay Terrien said:
No way! I spoke to a Rainsong employee at NAMM one year and he said that they never had a bass model. I'll have to keep my ears and eyes open in case one of these pops up on EBay.
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I can assure you they did make them in the late 1990's but only for a couple of years and they claim they made less than 10 of them. I've been looking for another one for years with no luck but as durable as these things are I'm sure there's still a few of them out there.
This is the one I own. http://www.rhino.com/fun/henrydiltz/photo4.lasso
I know of one other professional player that had one at one time and I'm still trying to hook up with him to see if he'll sell.
 

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