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Double Bass Why isn't Jazz that popular? (DB forum thread)
- Thread starter gai113
- Start date
I seriously question whether anyone became licensed as an electrician just because he knew who Thomas Edison was.
Nevertheless, hearty congratulations to you for knowing who buddy Bolden was.
I do, too.
Eric Hochberg is a better bassist that I am.
And he posts here under his real name.
This is basic stuff.
Bruce Lindfield said:
I don't deny what you are saying and I'm not just talking about my own circle of friends. I merely used them as an example. This thread is about asking the question "why isn't jazz more popular?" I'm just answering that question. Sure, there is a jazz culture that is still going, filled with people who care about the music. Sure it takes more skill to play then other types or genres. But that's not the question of the thread. Why isn't jazz more popular? Because it is a genre that requires a listener to invest time and effort to fully grasp. Time which they may just not have, or do not want to give, not because they are stupid as some have suggested. It's tough to get into jazz if you don't come from that background. Not like rock or country.
I don't think anybody is really interested in the answer to that question and it's just a conversation that has moved on now.
I was just replying to your points :
"Just the sentence "while the sax player solos over the top for 15 mins" is enough to send most people running for the exits. "
"I can't imagine anyone, other than hipsters, curious about jazz music remaining that way after reading some of the comments made here."
And saying that there are many Jazz fans who are not musicians, across the world and for them a night of improvised solos is the "norm" - it's what you expect to hear when you go to a Jazz club as a member of the audience.
As long as you are open-minded then it's no problem - some people just don't need to be spoon-fed music they have already heard and look forward to hearing something different.
I was just replying to your points :
"Just the sentence "while the sax player solos over the top for 15 mins" is enough to send most people running for the exits. "
"I can't imagine anyone, other than hipsters, curious about jazz music remaining that way after reading some of the comments made here."
And saying that there are many Jazz fans who are not musicians, across the world and for them a night of improvised solos is the "norm" - it's what you expect to hear when you go to a Jazz club as a member of the audience.
As long as you are open-minded then it's no problem - some people just don't need to be spoon-fed music they have already heard and look forward to hearing something different.
Bruce Lindfield said:
I really don't equate going to a concert or show that doesn't feature improvised solo sections as being spoon-fed music. But maybe that's not what you meant.
I mean that after many years of going to gigs/concerts it seems to be pointless going to see a band that is just trying to reproduce exactly what they played on a recording.
I think a lot of people are coming to this realisation and I think Jazz is a great antidote to the boredom of concerts where you have heard it all before.
I have seen TV programmes recently of pop/rock festivals where the singer and band have stopped playing/singing and the audience carried on word-for-word - you think - why have those musicians bothered even turning up?
It must be like Purgatory where you are doomed to repeat your few big hits forever and never play anything new!
I find that idea very depressing.
I think a lot of people are coming to this realisation and I think Jazz is a great antidote to the boredom of concerts where you have heard it all before.
I have seen TV programmes recently of pop/rock festivals where the singer and band have stopped playing/singing and the audience carried on word-for-word - you think - why have those musicians bothered even turning up?
It must be like Purgatory where you are doomed to repeat your few big hits forever and never play anything new!
I find that idea very depressing.
Bruce Lindfield said:I mean that after many years of going to gigs/concerts it seems to be pointless going to see a band that is just trying to reproduce exactly what they played on a recording.
I think a lot of people are coming to this realisation and I think Jazz is a great antidote to the boredom of concerts where you have heard it all before.
I have seen TV programmes recently of pop/rock festivals where the singer and band have stopped playing/singing and the audience carried on word-for-word - you think - why have those musicians bothered even turning up?
It must be like Purgatory where you are doomed to repeat your few big hits forever and never play anything new!
I find that idea very depressing.
I would agree there. Some of those old hair bands must be pretty tired of their songs.
[It must be like Purgatory where you are doomed to repeat your few big hits forever and never play anything new!
I find that idea very depressing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and it's a rough job keeping those old tunes alive and collecting all of those royalties year, after year, after year
I find that idea very depressing.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and it's a rough job keeping those old tunes alive and collecting all of those royalties year, after year, after year
I think it's the place music plays in main stream society now... why read a book when it's easier to watch the show or movie.
I notice that even after filtering out the shallow crap we hear today.. cough* Chris Brown... we're still left will a lot of music that might sound OK, but its intent is very obvious; sad, happy, energetic.. etc
Jazz can be pure expression and can be felt and interpreted differently by each individual... as long as you listen to it. It is not obvious and sometimes takes work but has the potential captivate and control the scenario.
As a part time job I chase hot air balloons... nothing is more bizarre and beautiful than listening to flamenco sketches 20 minutes after sun rise while driving 70 mph through the country chasing a basket propelled by fire... it tames the chaos and I will always associate that track with that experience
Of course, all music is a subjective thing... we all experience it differently and thus we can reallllly only speak from our own preferences and experiences
I notice that even after filtering out the shallow crap we hear today.. cough* Chris Brown... we're still left will a lot of music that might sound OK, but its intent is very obvious; sad, happy, energetic.. etc
Jazz can be pure expression and can be felt and interpreted differently by each individual... as long as you listen to it. It is not obvious and sometimes takes work but has the potential captivate and control the scenario.
As a part time job I chase hot air balloons... nothing is more bizarre and beautiful than listening to flamenco sketches 20 minutes after sun rise while driving 70 mph through the country chasing a basket propelled by fire... it tames the chaos and I will always associate that track with that experience
Of course, all music is a subjective thing... we all experience it differently and thus we can reallllly only speak from our own preferences and experiences
Well, I do not render this to "dumpness".
There are lot of comparable arts that cannot be enjoyed or understood without deeper insight.
Who only reads shallow stories will never be attracted by writers who use extended vocabulary, metaphors, and complex language.
Who only is used to go to McDonalds will not understand noveille cousine or can get absorbed with a really good whine.
Who only is watching soaps is lucky - I have to be awake till late night for the niche movies that have a beauty hidden inside.
Who is used to radio gaga never ever has the slightest chance to dig jazz.
I'm used being on some small edge far away from common taste but I hope I can give my children more options than provided by mass media and consume.
I thinks most people are not too dump but never have be provided with options.
For me, the biggest flaw is the hipster image it has sometimes, mainly created from the ******** comment wars on the internet or the new breed of high artists, playing 20 min melodic minor solo basking in their own musical dawn.
As far as it is true that jazz requires some longer listening to get used to it, I find it very unproductive that many fans present it that way right away, because actually there are artists that sound accessible, let's call it that way, without any(and I am not really speaking about the smooth stuff at the moment). I found that by simply enjoying the music or having a passion for it and presenting it as a possible alternative to others positively I got a lot of my peers listening to at least SOME jazz, be it Joao Gilberto, Oscar Peterson, Miles, Sonny Rollins, some even found themselves to be interested in Keith Jarrett. Some do more often, some not so much. But my point is they do, they like it and they present jazz to others so they pass the good message.
I think what really is enough, speaking of the open mind, to have an open mind. For other genres. There is a big difference between 'What is this crap' and 'I don't really like this'.
The only thing for me that makes jazz less popular is speaking of it like that. Of course it will not surpass pop audience, but on the other side that never was the point I think. Nonetheless, I rather speak of it as a great genre where almost everybody can find something that he/she will like if he looks for it. And presented this way, without insulting that person's taste or views, sending some stuff in, people I did this with almost always found something. And this is that kind of attitude and situation that applies to a lot of things happening in other aspects of life as well.
But, that is just my view on this.
As far as it is true that jazz requires some longer listening to get used to it, I find it very unproductive that many fans present it that way right away, because actually there are artists that sound accessible, let's call it that way, without any(and I am not really speaking about the smooth stuff at the moment). I found that by simply enjoying the music or having a passion for it and presenting it as a possible alternative to others positively I got a lot of my peers listening to at least SOME jazz, be it Joao Gilberto, Oscar Peterson, Miles, Sonny Rollins, some even found themselves to be interested in Keith Jarrett. Some do more often, some not so much. But my point is they do, they like it and they present jazz to others so they pass the good message.
I think what really is enough, speaking of the open mind, to have an open mind. For other genres. There is a big difference between 'What is this crap' and 'I don't really like this'.
The only thing for me that makes jazz less popular is speaking of it like that. Of course it will not surpass pop audience, but on the other side that never was the point I think. Nonetheless, I rather speak of it as a great genre where almost everybody can find something that he/she will like if he looks for it. And presented this way, without insulting that person's taste or views, sending some stuff in, people I did this with almost always found something. And this is that kind of attitude and situation that applies to a lot of things happening in other aspects of life as well.
But, that is just my view on this.
- Jan 25, 2006
- 1,292
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist; Arnold Schnitzer/ Wil DeSola New Standard RN DB
Although I don't agree with the entire paper, he makes a lot of good points and may be on to something. Good paper.
Part of jazz's lack of popularity can probably be chalked up to the tones in jazz. Some jazz is sweetly melodic, but much of it is also more tonally complex than the average listener is comfortable with. In short, I would imagine that a lot of jazz is simply not pleasant to listen to for a lot of people.
Take Bartok vs Mozart, for instance, in the classical realm. Casual classical listeners will enjoy Mozart, but maybe not Bartok so much. Change it to a causal music listener and one can probably see how Toby Keith or ZZ Top or (insert rock/pop/country artist of choice) will be more accessible than Coltrane or (insert jazz artist of choice).
Take Bartok vs Mozart, for instance, in the classical realm. Casual classical listeners will enjoy Mozart, but maybe not Bartok so much. Change it to a causal music listener and one can probably see how Toby Keith or ZZ Top or (insert rock/pop/country artist of choice) will be more accessible than Coltrane or (insert jazz artist of choice).
Brian - Long time, no see. How are you?
That's a very interesting web site. How did you find it?
