Prince was smart and managed to score major victories over the record companies. The man died rich and in control of his music. Not writing a will was a major screwup, but during his life, Prince was in control.
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Why Madonna, not Sheila E. Did the Prince tribute.
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
Prince was smart and managed to score major victories over the record companies. The man died rich and in control of his music. Not writing a will was a major screwup, but during his life, Prince was in control.
Probably the same reason that they got Britney Spears to sleepwalk and lip-sync through a hits medley: money. They got her cheap, I'm sure, thus increasing their bottom line. Not sure why my wife was watching the show, but I quickly turned it to something else.
Since when have I done anything else? For what is worth, I have gotten some likes, so I am not the only one who sees things that way. I guess there is a thin line between trolling, and giving an opinion, but I have never seen the point in posting on a thread just to drop an insult or put down.
Actually, it was Loreena McKennitt who was the game-changer for musicians when it came to contracts. AFAIK she was the first to negotiate - and get - complete artistic control over her recordings from day one. It was called the "Loreena McKennitt Deal" by the industry and (so I've been told) was something the powers that be immediately regretted when every other artist they controlled started asking for the same deal once word got out.
What exactly did Prince get from the labels? I know he did the flounce, but other than get what he was asking for for himself, where did it benefit everyone else? I never heard the full story. About all I ever heard was he was back and calling himself Prince once again. So I guess he got something out of them. But I never heard exactly what. So if you know please share it. Because I always wondered how that worked out.
As far as being a religious man goes, that's a null set for me. If you are, I'm good with that. If you're not, I really don't care. And the same goes for being a proponent for young musicianship. Because while I myself do everything I can to get people (not just young people) interested in playing music, I still don't think that has much to do with musical artistry or creativity. So when it comes to music, the depths of one's spiritual beliefs and community commitment aren't exactly germane. I try to separate the person from the artistic person. There are people I frankly can't stand (and a few I flat out despise) who I still think are incredibly talented and creative musicians. And vice-versa. You can be a good person. And you can be a good musician. But there's nothing that says one predicates the other. You don't have to be both. I'm just grateful how often musicians are both.
FWIW I've also learned to avoid reading or listening to most in-depth interviews with musicians. Because in my case, I've found that the more I know about most of the musicians I listen to, the less I like them as people. Same goes for most actors and actresses I admire. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. So I mostly prefer they just show me their artistry, and try to keep their philosophies and opinions to themselves. But that's me.
As far as drug use goes...it happens. Ditto for suicide, which is a predictable but growing problem for some young people. We have a drug and suicide problem here. I don't see it as the fundamental character flaw you seem to feel it is. And as far as suicide goes, until I'm sufficiently backed against the wall where I feel I have to make a decision regarding doing it myself, I'll reserve judgement on those who do decide to end their lives for whatever reason. With age I've learned to be less judgmental about a lot of things. I see suicide as more deserving of pity than condemnation. YMMV.
Re: Hendrix, Joplin, Morrison...
Divorcing the person from the artist, I personally think Hendrix and Joplin (especially Joplin) had twenty times more artistic talent, and integrity than most musicians that came before or after them - Prince included. Jim Morrison I have mixed opinions about. When he was good, he was very good. When he was off, it was cringe-worthy.
I saw him do both live, and I'm still conflicted over whether he was, in his own way, brilliant - or just somebody who occasionally got lucky and wrote something good. I tend to think it more the former, but again I'm still not quite sure what I think. I do know, however, that a live Doors performance on a night when Jim was in full control of his game was an almost frightening experience. Very few people could move an audience and create a dream space (in the Aborigine sense of "The Dreaming") like he could. If you let yourself flow with it, it could feel like a religious experience. The nickname "The Messiah of Rock & Roll" wasn't purely media hype. Doors concerts were more a tent revival meeting than a concert from what I saw. Pretty amazing for a singer with a limited range and a band with a penchant for tonic to minor third compositions. It shouldn't have worked. But it did more often than not.
But this is getting long and OT, so I'll let it go with that. Sorry for the long ramble,filks!
He shouldn't be. He should be a cautionary tale.
Certainly he did yeoman's work fighting record labels... problem is, he was only cleaning up the mess created for himself.
If you stab yourself, then do a good job stitching up the wound... you don't deserve special praise for how well you did stitching it up.
Then why did he have to change his name in an attempt to get out of bad record contracts which he signed?
"In Prince's mind, by changing his name to a symbol, he thought he could rescind and void the contract," McMillan told "20/20." "Because he was no longer a signatory under the name Prince Rogers Nelson. We now know that was not the case."
That doesn't sound "in control".
Been around for 61 years come last April. So yes, I was around in the '80's back when the 'M' in MTV actually stood for music. So I saw the entire rise and fall of the music video era. I'm not sure how he changed the musical landscape, unless you're referring to the visual element and the choreography. Nothing IMO that Earth, Wind & Fire didn't do previously - and better. But he certainly benefited from the improvements in the technology and put them to good use. And (most) of his music was solid crowd pleasing pop. No two ways about it.
Don't get me wrong. I think Prince has carved out his place in the history of popular music and is deservedly considered a significant name in the industry. I just don't see the degree of innovation many have claimed he accomplished. But I'm an old guy, y'know? I'm more impressed by some kid with a guitar or a harmonica that can hold an audience of passerby's in rapt attention with nothing but an acoustic instrument, their voice, and their personality than I am by an immaculately dress and coiffed performer fronting a half million dollar stage show. Because with that, there's so much spectacle, it's hard for our monkey brains not to be impressed. We all love our pretty lights and colors and dancing girls. I'll be the first to admit it.
As the song says: That's Entertainment!!!
But it ain't what I call rock & roll.
In the final analysis, gaining control during your lifetime is the best you can hope for.
And as long as you aren't leaving a destitute spouse and family behind, that's about as good as can be asked of anyone.
(*BTW - exactly what victories did he score over the labels? I keep hearing that he did. But I never heard precisely what his new deal was. Was it anything other than artistic control over his own recordings, and more money for himself? Does anybody know? Anyone? Anyone?)
Y Bing the u
The point is he found a way to gain control of his music. At his death, he owned his own masters. I know your points about knowing what you sign, but he was 18 when signed with Warner Brothers. I think the he handled himself well. Most folks get swallowed up by the industry.
The point is he found a way to gain control of his music. At his death, he owned his own masters. I know your points about knowing what you sign, but he was 18 when signed with Warner Brothers. I think the he handled himself well. Most folks get swallowed up by the industry.
Nope.
In the final analysis, never giving up control in the first place is the best you can hope for.
I think this is a giant whitewash of the responsibility of musicians. It's patronizing.
It's true. Music is full of young people who know way more about art than law and business. There will always be people who get caught up.
Just wanna say that I saw Sheila E. live with her family's band on a whim once and I was completely blown away. We had maybe one other table between us and the stage and I could not see her forearms move sometimes, yet every hit was perfect--incredible power AND rhythm. But more than that, it was musical, whether the groove was rock, jazz, or Latin.
I thought her response here was perfect: she took an ignorant and dismissive comment and turned it into encouragement for other musicians fighting to find their place. Right on.
I thought her response here was perfect: she took an ignorant and dismissive comment and turned it into encouragement for other musicians fighting to find their place. Right on.
I guess I'm naive. I figured they wanted her ( Madonna ) because they were contemporaries who were at their primes during the same span, were both seen as trend setters and often bombastic and both have/had the chops live. Sheila E was never ( correct me if I'm wrong here ) seen as much more than a side kick to Prince. I can't ever recall her being a self sustaining artist in her own right.
In any event I didn't watch, I had zero desire. The only tribute I ever found worthy was Freddie Mercury's. IMO of course.
In any event I didn't watch, I had zero desire. The only tribute I ever found worthy was Freddie Mercury's. IMO of course.
True. But that outcome - where you never relinquished control in the first place (a la Loreena McKennitt) - doesn't come from hoping. It comes from advance research and planning - and having something to bargain with.
So if you've already failed to do that, gaining control later on is the best you can hope for.
It's fine to pray for miracles. But I prefer not to rely on them.
(Note: In Ms. McKennitt's case her bargaining chip was her own independent personal sale of something like 30 thousand copies of her first self-produced album on cassette before the web even existed. That smelled like money to the labels. And when she looked for a label to sign with, she basically auditioned the them rather than the other way around. Now that's what I call changing the game!)
