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Why Madonna, not Sheila E. Did the Prince tribute.
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
I did say that I thought Sheila Escovedo would be better suited to honor Princes memory instead of that hag Madonna, I guess that wasn't enough. There are lots of fan boys here so theres no use trying to enlighten them with a little factual history, they know what they think they know, so be it. Like said before, music did not begin and end with Prince in this town, someday there will be another performer that will rival Dylan and Princes popularity, The big wheel just keeps turning.
That Dylan fella, he probably sold a record or two back in his day too.
That Dylan fella, he probably sold a record or two back in his day too.
For what it is worth, the guys you are calling fan boys are grown men in their fifties at least who have knowledge of music history. As I said before, if you want to discuss the worthiness of Prince's legacy, go for it, preferably on a thread you start.
Pardon me for sticking up for the rest of the hacks that didn't contribute squat to the so called "Minneapolis sound" that very term is a joke, marketed to adoring fans like yourself, it means nothing to those that also make music here. Later Bruh !
Prince fans in a Prince related thread? Hmm.....yeah, how did that happen?? Why are you here?
You've acknowledged a few things and we've acknowledged a few things. Can we let it go now?
You've acknowledged a few things and we've acknowledged a few things. Can we let it go now?
I thought we got past this already? And yeah, Dylan dates back to the 60's and is still doing it. That's great! Nobody ever discounted his contribution! And yeah, there will come along another insane talent that will shake up the music world. I believe it. Let's move on!
Staying on topic and moving on.
I guess Prince's contributions to modern culture extends far beyond just his music. People like his dance moves, movies, fashion, stage and video productions. My LGBT friends like what he represents in a realm of sexuality alone.
Not many people can reach the level of recognition he attained from his fans, chart success and musical colleagues. Call me a fan boy if you will but the guy was definitely one of a kind.
May be Madonna was chosen also for her immense success in pop culture? Whether you like her music or not you cannot deny her cultural influence. Just another perspective.
Still, would be cool to see someone else though. Because he was a cool cat.
I guess Prince's contributions to modern culture extends far beyond just his music. People like his dance moves, movies, fashion, stage and video productions. My LGBT friends like what he represents in a realm of sexuality alone.
Not many people can reach the level of recognition he attained from his fans, chart success and musical colleagues. Call me a fan boy if you will but the guy was definitely one of a kind.
May be Madonna was chosen also for her immense success in pop culture? Whether you like her music or not you cannot deny her cultural influence. Just another perspective.
Still, would be cool to see someone else though. Because he was a cool cat.
This says nothing about how they match up with Prince as all-around musicians, stage performers and producers. I never said anything about popularity numbers; I was talking about all-around talent and artistry.
Would it be reasonable to say that:
a) Prince is the artist most recognized by the average fan for being from Minneapolis, and
b) Prince is the artist most responsible for making the average music fan aware of the Minneapolis music scene?
I'll leave you with this quote from Terry Lewis of Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis fame, and a major player in the Minneapolis music scene, so he might have some idea of what he's talking about:
"The 'Minneapolis sound' to me is the sound that Prince created. It's the sound that defines Minneapolis."
If you think the Andrews Sisters don't match up with Prince as musicians and stage performers - I'd say you're displaying your ignorance of the Andrews Sisters.
Nope.
I'd say somewhere in the 85-95% range of average fans have no idea Prince was from Minneapolis or even consider the existence of a Minneapolis "music scene", much less are "aware" of it.
Prince didn't put Minnesota/Minneapolis on "the map". It isn't on "the map".
For the average fan there is LA, NYC, and maybe Nashville.
I think that is what Prince fans fail to understand about this tribute.
It wasn't about Prince, it was about money... and Madonna is just plain old way more well known and currently popular.
Pretty hard to get a realistic opinion from someone so intimately involved, never mind things like confirmation bias. I mean - my kids are the greatest kids in the world.
Well it wasn't just us Prince fanboys that had a problem with the choice. Almost the entire music community have been giving rebuttals. I guess Bruno Mars wasn't available. Can't imagine sponsors wouldn't put up the same money! Too bad Madonna can't actually sing well. I guess it was about the money. Total disrespect for the man. He deserved more than that.
And yes, all our kids are special.......whether it's true or not!
...but the "music community" doesn't make Billboard any money.
It isn't about what is better - it's just about what makes more money... and that largely means catering to the lowest common denominator of 12-25 year old men/women as cheaply as possible.
That's the only reason award shows exist at all, the only reason Billboard exists at all, and the only reason a music "industry" exists at all... so, shouldn't take too much guessing.
I'd like to see footage of the Andrews Sisters singing, dancing and playing a variety of musical instruments in different musical genres in front of live audiences over 3+ decades. And I say that with no disrespect to the Andrews Sisters, but you did choose to use them as an example.
I was a young man in Sacramento, CA during the early/mid '80s, and my friends and I (both musicians and non-musicians) were well aware of Prince's Minneapolis connection. The national media made a big deal about it.
Because Terry Lewis was close to the situation, it automatically makes his opinion less valid?
There's nothing more I can say on this subject. I'm out.
Their first #1 hit (in German) in 1938:
It was one of NINE top 20 Billboard charting songs they put out that year.
Number 1 hits in their second decade:
Ferryboat Serenade
Shoo-Shoo Baby
A Hot Time In the Town of Berlin(with Bing Crosby)
Don't Fence Me In(with Bing Crosby)
Rum and Coca Cola
I Can Dream, Can't I?
Number 1 hits in their 3rd decade:
I Wanna Be Loved
Heck - Maxine Andrews (the longest living) has the distinction of being one of only a few people to sing for veterans of every war from the Spanish-American War through Desert Storm.
Dancing? They did a lot of that in the 17 movies they made -
Different genres?
Swing, boogie-woogie, ragtime, blues, calypso, jazz, ballads, folk, country-western, seasonal, and religious music - including an album of gospel standards.
They recorded songs from Russia, Spain, Mexico, and Brazil.
Go out on the street two months ago and ask 50 random people where Prince was from... you'll be lucky if 5-6 can answer.
During the "Purple Rain" peak popularity of the mid 1980's - yeah, it might have been more like 20/50 would know the answer.
Prince was never nationally popular at the level of the Andrews Sisters - I mean, a record label put them on a radio show with Glen Miller because the they were worried Glen Miller wasn't popular enough to hold his own, so they added the Andrews Sisters. Glenn Miller.
Because he was in the situation, and benefitted financially from the situation - he isn't likely to be very objective. It's very difficult for humans to be objective in those situations...
As I said - my kids are the greatest kids in the world. Am I lying? No. Am I objective? No.
C'mon man! Seriously? Prince was an international star playing stadiums and was well respected in the music community. Let's be realistic!
Prince was an international star, he played stadiums, and was well respected in the music community.... but he never had the penetration into the public consciousness that the Andrews Sisters did in their heyday.
That isn't a slight on Prince - it's just the reality of how HUGE the Andrews Sisters were in the late 1930's-early 1950's.
You have to understand they were one of the biggest acts in the USA, who did lots of government related war work. War bond commercials, entertaining soldiers on multiple continents, they were even called "Sweethearts of the Armed Forces Radio Service" for how often they appeared/performed on the armed forces radio stations.... the only stations available to many of the 15+ million who were serving in the war.
I dig the Andrew Sisters but I think your last sentence answered a lot. We were still a highly segregated society back then and black music was still 'race' music and had nowhere the exposer of white music.
Prince was a musician. He may be known by some for a few 80 pop hits or his persona but the reason he was respected by the likes of Stevie Wonder and Miles Davis is because like them, he devoted his entire life to music : he could do it all gospel, blues, jazz, and he created and contributed to the history of American Music. He happened to surround himself with musicians who had the same kind of deep passion and belief that music matters and can be a vehicle of change. I think he would be the first to show respect for fellow musicians from his city or not ( including the Andrew Sisters). That is why it is annoying to see people with much better business sense than the average musician, take credit and profit from an art they never contributed to, and to compare record sales to "relevance".
Madonna is a remarkable show business woman but since the tribute was to a virtuoso multi instrumentalist, composer, arranger, and producer maybe not a great choice.
To write off Sheila E. a slap in the face of what Prince stood for.
I don't think anyone wants to see a memorial of Jamerson done by One Direction. But if you reason sales numbers.. why not?
It is not a contest and nobody has to like Prince but credit should be given when due.
All this said, I don't have a TV so who cares
Madonna is a remarkable show business woman but since the tribute was to a virtuoso multi instrumentalist, composer, arranger, and producer maybe not a great choice.
To write off Sheila E. a slap in the face of what Prince stood for.
I don't think anyone wants to see a memorial of Jamerson done by One Direction. But if you reason sales numbers.. why not?
It is not a contest and nobody has to like Prince but credit should be given when due.
All this said, I don't have a TV so who cares
Dude, you can't compare eras! Society was way different back then. Maybe he didn't play for the Armed Forces (we don't know this for sure) but he had a huge impact in and outside of the music scene. As mentioned previously from musical styles, fashion, dance and stage shows! Like I said, the fact that tributes are being done for the man proves he left a legacy. And that's not to slight any other artist because there are many who will deserve the same accolades!
There are absolutely a number of reasons WHY the Andrews Sisters had the market penetration they did... but that doesn't change the fact that they had a market presence seldom seen since.
As for race - that actually was a bit of a problem for the Andrews Sisters early on. A lot of record labels though they were too "ethnic" due to their ties with vaudeville/Jewish musicians (Vic Schoen) and their Greek heritage.
