Impulse Responses - fancy EQ curves that are interactive and mimic the response of a cabinet.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Why No Line 6 "BASS CAB"?
- Thread starter JCW308
- Start date
Impulse Responses - fancy EQ curves that are interactive and mimic the response of a cabinet.
To be fair, I don't know that Ampeg makes any great cabs for modeling purposes unless there are some I'm not aware of.
Line-6 and Ampeg are in the same building. Yamaha would probably do "bass" amps with the Ampeg name. I don't think Ampeg influence would even consider a powered cab a starter as Bass players can't seem to catch on to the powered cab approach. It just doesn't go with the mindset of the typical Ampeg customer.
On the other hand, Line-6 does have FOH/PA cabs that work great for Bass, but so does Yamaha. Yamaha may be a better line of FOH/PA in the long run. Much better established with institutions and rental houses. Easy to scale up and down with the all cab combinations they have. All would work beautifully with the Line-6 Helix or other modeler/sims.
Line-6 doesn't need to make a cab that looks like a bass cab but works like a FOH/PA cab. It wouldn't cross over to their other markets. Bass players should open their minds up and try some of the existing PA/FOH especially if they like their pre-amp or do any amp and cabinet sims.
On the other hand, Line-6 does have FOH/PA cabs that work great for Bass, but so does Yamaha. Yamaha may be a better line of FOH/PA in the long run. Much better established with institutions and rental houses. Easy to scale up and down with the all cab combinations they have. All would work beautifully with the Line-6 Helix or other modeler/sims.
Line-6 doesn't need to make a cab that looks like a bass cab but works like a FOH/PA cab. It wouldn't cross over to their other markets. Bass players should open their minds up and try some of the existing PA/FOH especially if they like their pre-amp or do any amp and cabinet sims.
I suppose that is true now. But Line6 is a DSP company. They aren't really an amp company and never were, they just cobbled together some cheesy cheap amps as a package for their DSP.
Personally I would never use one of those types of cabs (I mean the mass market "FRFR" cabs, or any powered PA cab) for bass, because they just aren't designed for that and generally sound awful for it. On top of that, speaker emulation is probably the worst part of modeling, but it affects your entire sound. I mean, it's ok if you don't listen too closely, but I'm still always disappointed any time I run sound for a band and they all show up with helixes or whatever and no amps/cabs. And then usually if they aren't on in ears, they want their monitors so high it completely defeats the purpose of not having amps on stage, except it sounds worse because all the sound is coming from a (usually) cheap wedge and not a dedicated guitar amp.
Beyond that, air is what makes sound sound good. So if you want to use modeling for the bulk of your bass sound, but you want the absolute best quality sound, go and buy a really nice BASS cabinet that you love the sound of, hopefully flat-ish (but as long as it's somewhere between flat and sounding like a great bass cab, that's perfect). Model to your heart's content, and it will sound like a bass amp because it is coming through a bass cab.
I would say the GK NEO 12s would be a good platform (as many of them as you need, but I suggest at least 2). They aren't necessarily ruler flat, but they have a nice sounding response that takes EQ well.
But I'm weird, I would rather have 1 sound that's 100% what it should be, or a few that are 90-95%, than a whole range of sounds that are 80%. Like, my ShuttleMax might not be an SVT, but the tube preamp can get the kinds of sounds I want out of an SVT. But I don't have an SVT not because I have the SM, but just because I don't have one (plus I have a friend that does have one if I needed to borrow it). I also have the very similar GBE-750, which is traditional SS vs class D of the SM, and I will 100% use the GBE when I feel like it's character brings something the SM doesn't. And vice versa. And that's not even the differene between modeling and not, but just between slightly different preamp designs and amp topographies.
So anyway, yeah, my advice is to get a great sounding NEUTRAL (not necessarily "flat") BASS cab, and let the modeling stick to your effects and your pre (and then presumably you would use a power amp or the power section of a bass amp). That's what it's relatively good at. Asking it "please replicate the complex interactions of the trillions of air molecules in this room between a speaker and my ears, and also the electrical response of the speaker itself to a complex and varying signal over time" is a lot. Take that part out of the equation (and maybe have a separate cab emulator on what you send to FOH, which is sort of a necessary evil if you can't get your cab miked), and replace it with the real thing. You will almost certainly have amazing and consistent results that way.
Personally I would never use one of those types of cabs (I mean the mass market "FRFR" cabs, or any powered PA cab) for bass, because they just aren't designed for that and generally sound awful for it. On top of that, speaker emulation is probably the worst part of modeling, but it affects your entire sound. I mean, it's ok if you don't listen too closely, but I'm still always disappointed any time I run sound for a band and they all show up with helixes or whatever and no amps/cabs. And then usually if they aren't on in ears, they want their monitors so high it completely defeats the purpose of not having amps on stage, except it sounds worse because all the sound is coming from a (usually) cheap wedge and not a dedicated guitar amp.
Beyond that, air is what makes sound sound good. So if you want to use modeling for the bulk of your bass sound, but you want the absolute best quality sound, go and buy a really nice BASS cabinet that you love the sound of, hopefully flat-ish (but as long as it's somewhere between flat and sounding like a great bass cab, that's perfect). Model to your heart's content, and it will sound like a bass amp because it is coming through a bass cab.
I would say the GK NEO 12s would be a good platform (as many of them as you need, but I suggest at least 2). They aren't necessarily ruler flat, but they have a nice sounding response that takes EQ well.
But I'm weird, I would rather have 1 sound that's 100% what it should be, or a few that are 90-95%, than a whole range of sounds that are 80%. Like, my ShuttleMax might not be an SVT, but the tube preamp can get the kinds of sounds I want out of an SVT. But I don't have an SVT not because I have the SM, but just because I don't have one (plus I have a friend that does have one if I needed to borrow it). I also have the very similar GBE-750, which is traditional SS vs class D of the SM, and I will 100% use the GBE when I feel like it's character brings something the SM doesn't. And vice versa. And that's not even the differene between modeling and not, but just between slightly different preamp designs and amp topographies.
So anyway, yeah, my advice is to get a great sounding NEUTRAL (not necessarily "flat") BASS cab, and let the modeling stick to your effects and your pre (and then presumably you would use a power amp or the power section of a bass amp). That's what it's relatively good at. Asking it "please replicate the complex interactions of the trillions of air molecules in this room between a speaker and my ears, and also the electrical response of the speaker itself to a complex and varying signal over time" is a lot. Take that part out of the equation (and maybe have a separate cab emulator on what you send to FOH, which is sort of a necessary evil if you can't get your cab miked), and replace it with the real thing. You will almost certainly have amazing and consistent results that way.
I think everyone else has answered this, but I echo the market share argument. Yamaha has products it wants bass players to buy, and Line6 stuff isn't one of them. I like the Helix stuff, sure, but there's also better analog emulation out there for classic amps (ShiftLine, tech 21, plenty of others) that can work with any power amp and cab.
Barefaced claims several of their 12CX cabs are FRFR for bass or guitar. I've heard lots of bass cabs can be considered FRFR, if there's no baked in EQ. Dunno how true that is.
They "Tried" bass amps and cabs about 15 years ago, they were not very good and they only supported them for their few years run. After the last one was made they decided to not support them anymore.
That was when my 300 died.
They told me they are no longer in the Bass world and are only doing guitar items so we no longer support your amp for repairs.
I still have the around 70lbs doorstop in the guest room that is covered with a purple bed sheet making it into a side table. It has been a side table for over ten years as no Repair Shops will touch it.
That was when my 300 died.
They told me they are no longer in the Bass world and are only doing guitar items so we no longer support your amp for repairs.
I still have the around 70lbs doorstop in the guest room that is covered with a purple bed sheet making it into a side table. It has been a side table for over ten years as no Repair Shops will touch it.
When I was playing Line 6 preamps, I used an Acme Low B2 cab because it's designed to be flat and has good low end extension. The downside was that it was inefficient and I had to use a power amp to drive it which ended up with a large, heavy rig that wasn't very loud. Then the Class D and neodymium stuff hit the market and I decide that close enough is close enough.
If I ever leave an amp behind, this will be my solution too. Already considering a ShiftLine Olympic and looking for a head with an FX loop for the power amp in. I do think, if you're using a single analog preamp, having a dedicated amp head is the best way to go, since you can use the power amp alone and still have a second tone set.
Special full range cabs paired with modelers are kind of over hyped imo. Everyone I know in gigging bands with modelers just disables the cab IRs and runs their modeler to a power amp and a bass or guitar cab. With a lot of the new modelers you can setup patches with parallel signals where one output has the cab Sim active to run direct to a pa and the other has the cab sim disabled to run to a cab. For example our rhythm guitarist uses a fractal ax8 and he builds his patches so after the amp model and his post amp effects the signal splits into two and one signal has a cab sim for running direct and the other signal Running to his cab doesn’t have the cab IR. He uses a class d power amp that weighs like 5lbs and a normal Celestion vintage 30s loaded 212 guitar cab. As most people already have a cab this is what most people in my area tend to do. Interesting enough I’ve been in bands where in the studio the guitarists uses different amps for Dirty, clean, and or bluesy tones. For example a 5150 for dirt and a fender combo for cleaner tones but they’d run the combo as a head into the same vintage 30 cab they used for dirty tones because they like the sound more and it’s less hassle because you don’t have to mic up the combo at all. Using a bunch of different cab sims isn’t the norm from what I’ve seen. Even people who run ampless with modelers and use a bunch of different amp models tend to find one cab IR they Really like and use it on all their patches.
I leave a 2x12 at our rehearsal studio and have 2-2x8 cabs as one option and a SL112 and SL212 s as my other option. I’m using 1 IR for bass and 1 for guitar, just have 1 small board with 2 AC plugs and 1 12’ speaker cable. This is the easiest “carry” I could come up with... my McMillan 12-Step also fits in this bag (plugs into my iPad Pro on the mic stand). Just waiting on my Straight Ahead to show up to complete this final config.
Last edited:
Line 6 and Ampeg are under the same umbrella now. Why would Line 6 make some twinky bass cab when they've got Ampeg?
And that’s a great point!Line 6 and Ampeg are under the same umbrella now. Why would Line 6 make some twinky bass cab when they've got Ampeg?
Or maybe they’ll borrow some of that tech and broaden their market?
I don’t understand why a pa cab isn’t an FRFR. Both I’ve used had a full range setting for use without a sub.
