Why not inverted P?

[Jazz Ad]

Now we're discussin the slanted Strat pickup?
This one isn't difficult do figure out. It makes for a richer sound in 2 ways. Picking more lows for bassier strings that otherwise sound plonky and picking various harmonics for chord playing. What could make a mess nearer to the neck allows the use of a single bridge pickup without sounding thin.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Please erase this phrase from your lexicon. It's not the audience's job to care. It's yours. And the audience isn't going to hire you for a gig with their band, are they?

The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes we sweat the tiniest little details, maybe a bit too much (just my opinion). I'm just trying to offer a different perspective based on my nearly 30 years of gigging, buying and selling gear and modding and upgrading my stuff. That's all.

 

[JimmyM]

The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes we sweat the tiniest little details, maybe a bit too much (just my opinion). I'm just trying to offer a different perspective based on my nearly 30 years of gigging, buying and selling gear and modding and upgrading my stuff. That's all.

Fair enough. Just bear in mind what's tiny to you can be gigantic to someone else.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Fair enough. Just bear in mind what's tiny to you can be gigantic to someone else.

Yeah, I can dig that. Admittedly, I haven't played a bass equipped with a 'reverse p' pickup in over 25 years. I'd be curious to hear how subtle (or not) any sonic differences might be.

 

[Honch]

Never cared for MusicMan, like some G&L's and dislike most, and mistake or not, the Strat is still one of the top 3 electric guitars of all time, probably the top one, and I've yet to see anyone straighten out the bridge pickup. But I'm sure if that's what you want, you can get it. Just not from Fender.

Ever heard of Billy Gibbons or Paul Gilbert?

At least angled the right way. Jimis strats did by nature of course, not intentionally.
Heres the reason displayed very clearly of why it is the neck pickup that REALLY has to be slanted/angled and not the bridge:

And another one, a tad overkill but keep in mind that the pole pieces runs exactly over the strings on this one:

.. except the neck pickup of course...

 

[JimmyM]

Ever heard of Billy Gibbons or Paul Gilbert?

At least angled the right way. Jimis strats did by nature of course, not intentionally.
Heres the reason displayed very clearly of why it is the neck pickup that REALLY has to be slanted/angled and not the bridge:

And another one, a tad overkill but keep in mind that the pole pieces runs exactly over the strings on this one:

.. except the neck pickup of course...

OK, so someone did it. You got me

 

[ofajen]

I'm considering the benefits of a more radical pickup shift.

Given that even a 4-string tuned in fourths has 1.25 octaves between the open tuning of first and fourth strings, there is a shift of the characteristics based on pickup location (corner frequency of low end roll off and pickup null pattern) by a factor of nearly 2.4 between the first and fourth strings. Switching the P halves makes significantly less proportional shift.

On my avatar fretless Wishbass, I'm considering slanting the J pickup so that it is about 1.25" from the bridge for the low E (about where it currently is) and about 3" from the bridge for the G string. That should cause the changes in pickup characteristics caused by tuned pitch to be roughly cancelled by the proportional changes in pickup spacing.

Where that would leave me is with essentially the same sonic signature from the pickup for all four strings. This means that I should be able to use a single low end eq boost (6 dB/octave below about 400 Hz) and have essentially the same sonic effect on all four strings.

I don't think this is particularly of interest to that many folks, because sonic "accuracy" from a pickup isn't usually a goal, but it is kind of what I want from my fretless. That is to say that I really want enjoy the benefits of having a pickup close to the bridge (pushing the first null well up away from the main harmonics of the fingered notes) while being able to compensate for the low end roll off properly for all four strings using a single audio channel.

It isn't a big endeavor. I can get a local tech to make the appropriate slot for a reasonable fee. It just needs me reaching a sufficient level of interest in improving over the tone I currently get, which I haven't yet reached.

Otto

 

[StatesideRambler]

Y'know, nearly all the arguments here would hold water if we were talking about one pitch on one string played one way. As soon as you start adding the variables that render pitches into music (different people, plectra, fingers, fingernails, dynamics, frets, fretless, plucking at various locations along the string(s), varying string diameter, material and construction, body and neck material and construction, and on and on ...) those arguments collapse under the complexity of what we do as musicians.

 

[ctmullins]

Y'know, nearly all the arguments here would hold water if we were talking about one pitch on one string played one way. As soon as you start adding the variables that render pitches into music (different people, plectra, fingers, fingernails, dynamics, frets, fretless, plucking at various locations along the string(s), varying string diameter, material and construction, body and neck material and construction, and on and on ...) those arguments collapse under the complexity of what we do as musicians.

I disagree, sorta. They don't collapse, but they do become far less objective or quantifiable.

 

[ofajen]

I disagree, sorta. They don't collapse, but they do become far less objective or quantifiable.

Actually, no, they remain the same for each string. However, it is true that the relationship of the sequence of nulls to the harmonics of fretted notes will each be different and different from the open string. But the low end roll off and sequence of nulls is fixed for a given string length, open tuned pitch and pickup location. It's just math.

The low end roll off in particular is of importance to bass players and a big part of why bridge and neck pickups sound so different. With a more radical bridge position as on my avatar Wishbass, you have to understand what the low end roll off is doing and how to compensate, or you won't be playing a bass, just a low-tuned instrument.

What I've suggested here is just a way to make that compensation work substantially the same for all four strings. It's not practical to do this farther from the bridge with a single pickup unit. Also, if you don't start close to the bridge on the low end, you would end up with the high string pickup so far from the bridge that the nulls would be very prominent in the range of low order harmonics, especially when playing farther up the neck.

Otto

 

[ofajen]

Y'know, nearly all the arguments here would hold water if we were talking about one pitch on one string played one way. As soon as you start adding the variables that render pitches into music (different people, plectra, fingers, fingernails, dynamics, frets, fretless, plucking at various locations along the string(s), varying string diameter, material and construction, body and neck material and construction, and on and on ...) those arguments collapse under the complexity of what we do as musicians.

The effect of pickup location on pickup response is a real and fundamental factor in bass tone. However, I'd tend to agree with the notion that it's very easy to overemphasize the impact of P vs inverted P or even the more radical bridge placement of my Wishbass. I manage to find a workable compensation for the low end by eq'ing for the middle strings. That's the main reason why I haven't changed the pickup location to try this out.

Otto

 

[sheltjo6]

View attachment 1178681 Spector basses with a P are allmost allways done like this, it not reversed to me it's just how it should be
View attachment 1178680

I've never seen a dual P Spector bass before. How does it sound?

 

[ThuzzleFump]

Ah, geez. So much already going on today. I guess I'm in the probably-not-a-huge-diff-really group.

 

[tallboybass]

This video shows that Leo might have had second thoughts about his own traditional P configuration.

 

[Marcus Willett]

Make your own.
View attachment 1178965

This is exactly what I did with my '57 (well, style-wise, it's actually an '83 decked out in my favorite P style) but it took a while to get a gold anodized pickguard with the reverse setup. It's also the bass in my avatar (I usually leave the cover on).

Also, I couldn't care less if the audience notices or not....they don't notice most things and frankly I think as musicians we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than "whether or not the audience can tell", just IMO.

 

[JimmyM]

Also, I couldn't care less is the audience notices or not....they don't notice most things and frankly I think as musicians we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than "whether or not the audience can tell", just IMO.

Totally. I hate it when musicians say that. It's like consigning yourself to be average at best.

 

[bassdude51]

This is exactly what I did with my '57 (well, style-wise, it's actually an '83 decked out in my favorite P style) but it took a while to get a gold anodized pickguard with the reverse setup. It's also the bass in my avatar (I usually leave the cover on).
View attachment 2964326
Also, I couldn't care less if the audience notices or not....they don't notice most things and frankly I think as musicians we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than "whether or not the audience can tell", just IMO.

First off, I totally agree with your statement about the audience!!!!!!! Totally agree!

Next...........OMG! How did you do it? Where in the hell did you get or find or have made that aluminum gold anodized guard with a reversed coil? DAMN CITY!

Awesome!

I thought mine was bad but yours is SUPER BAD!!!!!!!!

Thank-you for sharing photos with us! You are a great bass guy, Marcus Willett!

 

[Marcus Willett]

How did you do it? Where in the hell did you get or find or have made that aluminum gold anodized guard with a reversed coil?

The truth is I got lucky. I found a guy (I might be able to figure out who it was, this was a while back) who was anodizing a big batch of parts and he offered to throw this in (I had to submit a tracing, so I used a standard Fender '57 pickguard and reversed the route along the centerline) for an extremely low price so I pounced. Turned out great....the bass doesn't get played too much these days but I break it out once in a while. It records well and to my ears has a more even timbre than the standard P setup.

Thanks, BTW

 

[bassdude51]

The truth is I got lucky. I found a guy (I might be able to figure out who it was, this was a while back) who was anodizing a big batch of parts and he offered to throw this in (I had to submit a tracing, so I used a standard Fender '57 pickguard and reversed the route along the centerline) for an extremely low price so I pounced. Turned out great....the bass doesn't get played too much these days but I break it out once in a while. It records well and to my ears has a more even timbre than the standard P setup.

Thanks, BTW

Thank-you for your info! Just LOVE your reversed P!

My comment is dead on with yours about the sonic benefits of the reversed coils. The G&D strings have a touch more bass and the E&A's bass sonics are tightened up. Thus the reversed coils on the P give it an improved and better balanced bass guitar sound.

Thank-you for your comments and sharing your photos.

 

[TuneSalad666]

Far be it from me to call myself an expert:

But here's food for thought. Most bass players WANT those lower notes to be very bassy. As bassy as possible. They use the higher-tuned strings to play little gliss notes. Harmonics. Vibratos. Quick, bitey solos.

Does a Reverse P make sense? Of course, I've got a Streamer with a Rev-P J, and it's awesome. The tone is very balanced and mid-rangy. But I also have a P bass with a normal configuration, and those low strings are Thunderous.

Check out the Mark Hoppus Siggy Jazz. Spector and Warwick make lots of Rev P's too.

The P bass is an animal though. And it's a formula that just works.

It's possibly most people would prefer it as you describe, even if the poll tells a different story, and I personally would prefer the bass with most equal tone balance string to string, even if they will always sound a little different anyway because of the difference in gauge and fretting position respectively to get the same note.

Suits my playing best, as I play mostly originals with generally not a whole lot of traditional root note groove work, but a lot of string skipping and moving up and down in the register all across the 4 strings.

When that is said I personally have little idea how much of a difference a traditionally placed P pickup would make, as the basses I own with a pickup configuration that includes a P pickup all uses the reversed approach, including my newest addition, an Ibanez P/J configured Mikro bass, which by the way quickly has become a new favorite of mine.