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Why the hate towards lined fretless?

#165
spade2you said:
(Yawn) This one again. Unlined may seem like taking a big leap into a deep unknown, but I assure everyone that it's not nearly as difficult as people like to perpetuate. If I can do it, it's not that hard.
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Let's hear you do it on Donna Lee at 300bpm playing a solo. i.e. there's a difference between playing I IV V in tune and hanging with Hiromi or Herbie.

And if you can play what Gary Willis can play without lines then that'll be a good data point for this conversation.

Transcribe this and play it without lines:



Frets are cheating too, eh?
 
#166
jzucker said:
Let's hear you do it on Donna Lee at 300bpm playing a solo. i.e. there's a difference between playing I IV V in tune and hanging with Hiromi or Herbie.

And if you can play what Gary Willis can play without lines then that'll be a good data point for this conversation.
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Jeez, I'd expect a little more class from an instructor. I didn't quite get the perfect takes with recording, but a quick listen to most of my Myspace tunes would show I'm no slouch. Perfection? Nah. Besides, perfection=death (pun towards another "popular" thread).

Donna Lee would be an interesting challenge. Will I play it? If I feel like it, although I was always a bigger fan of songs like Continuum, Opus Pocus, and his work with Pat Metheny. I'd need to dig up an old set list, but I've played a few Gary Willis tunes. The names escape me at the moment, but it was some of his stuff with Holdsworth.

There has your urge to measure my ________ been satisfied? :rolleyes:
 
#167
jzucker said:
Let's hear you do it on Donna Lee at 300bpm playing a solo. i.e. there's a difference between playing I IV V in tune and hanging with Hiromi or Herbie.

And if you can play what Gary Willis can play without lines then that'll be a good data point for this conversation.

Transcribe this and play it without lines:



Frets are cheating too, eh?
Click to expand...


Did I ever say that it WAS cheating? I said that unlined isn't as difficult as people perpetuate.

Care to transcribe that?
 
#168
Sigh...I wonder if there is snobbery or ego involved in the lined/unlined debate, since the "fretless sound" will still be there.
Play, play well---beyond that, who cares.
 
#169
spade2you said:
Did I ever say that it WAS cheating? I said that unlined isn't as difficult as people perpetuate.

Care to transcribe that?
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You implied that it wasn't that difficult and I'm merely pointing out that depending on what material you're playing, it is difficult. Sometimes folks on these forums have a myopic view of music where everything is filtered through their taste in music and then the opinions you see on the boards come out as generalized recommendations such as "fretlines are bad" and "I don't have any problems playing without lines". So my response was to point out that for some music, fretlines can really be beneficial. Particularly for play herbie-type lines up in the upper register. Jaco, Willis, Garrison and tony grey all use fretlines and play those types of lines. Why not ask them?
 
#170
MEKer said:
Sigh...I wonder if there is snobbery or ego involved in the lined/unlined debate, since the "fretless sound" will still be there.
Play, play well---beyond that, who cares.
Click to expand...

It definitely is. Plus I've noticed that the guys who emphatically say lines are not needed and are cheating are not playing the types of mccoy / herbie lines in the upper register that are part of the reason many of the great, modern improvisers on fretless use lines.

If you're playing pop music or walking changes I agree that lines are not needed.
 
#172
jzucker said:
Let's hear you do it on Donna Lee at 300bpm playing a solo. i.e. there's a difference between playing I IV V in tune and hanging with Hiromi or Herbie.

And if you can play what Gary Willis can play without lines then that'll be a good data point for this conversation.

Transcribe this and play it without lines:



If NHOP can do it on a 43' scale UNLINED upright, then ya can do it on an unlined 34" electric. URGHHHHHH!!!!


How about we stop creating bizarre mythologies around these issues....jeesh. ITS ABOUT THE SKILL, NOT THE TOOL.

Lined or unlined - it really doesn't matter. There are good players using both. They're both fine choices. play what you want and to heck with critics on either side.
Click to expand...
 
#173
thmsjordan said:
Wow - I have never seen such a lot of bickering go on over such a non issue. You can play plenty of complicated stuff on an unlined fretless or a lined one.



If NHOP can do it on a 43' scale UNLINED upright, then ya can do it on an unlined 34" electric. URGHHHHHH!!!!


How about we stop creating bizarre mythologies around these issues....jeesh. ITS ABOUT THE SKILL, NOT THE TOOL.

Lined or unlined - it really doesn't matter. There are good players using both. They're both fine choices. play what you want and to heck with critics on either side.
Click to expand...


We're in violent agreement. I never said lines are necessary. If you can play like NHOP (1 in a million) then you don't need lines. However, some folks are saying lines are unnecessary and even cheating. So, for those folks I say post some herbie/mccoy lines above the 12th fret. In fact, I'd love to transcribe some! :D

And by the way, intonation is more difficult with the shorter scale. The longer scale actually is more forgiving. Think about the physics...
 
#175
jzucker said:
We're in violent agreement. I never said lines are necessary. If you can play like NHOP (1 in a million) then you don't need lines. However, some folks are saying lines are unnecessary and even cheating. So, for those folks I say post some herbie/mccoy lines above the 12th fret. In fact, I'd love to transcribe some! :D

And by the way, intonation is more difficult with the shorter scale. The longer scale actually is more forgiving. Think about the physics...
Click to expand...

Sorry - I misunderstood what you were saying.

I say non - issue. You think lined is better for some. I respect your opinion even if I disagree.
 
#178
fellows, this issue comes down to personal preference- this is as big a waste of time as arguing between a Kia and a Hyundai, or black and brown. Now go and practice some Lydian dominant scales. Hey wait a minute, let's open a thread "Lydian dom.... Why all the hate?"
 

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