Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
Ha. You can't start a thread like this and then decide it's over. It has a life of its own now and you are responsible for it.
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Will Fender lose popularity?
- Thread starter Dallaspezz
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- fender
What is really needed to be done to an electric bass to make play or sound better over the years anyway.
But they ARE eroding, it cannot be denied. In 1976, when I started playing bass, there were three brands of bass that folks took at all seriously: Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker. Sure, there were Asian brands, but they were not taken at all seriously (for darned good reasons, as it happens. Feel free to flame me.... NOW!
) - And of those big three, Fender was BY FAR the most popular. I'd say 8 out of 10 gigging guys played a Fender back then. Now? I'd say about 1/2 - at most. I personally know two very frequently gigging bassists (other than myself) - neither owns a fender nor has owned one *years*. Me? My last Fender was bought on a lark in 2007 and sold a few months later - it just wasn't as nice as my Lakland or my Zon - so why keep it? Look - Fender as a brand name is great - but it isn't what it was 40 years ago, and it will continue to slowly erode just because *that's what happens in the free market*. Big companies like Fender can never really keep up with smaller, more agile companies. Fenders stop-gap solution has been to push out a line of inexpensive instruments (MIC/MIK/MIM) and to pair Fender with their "budget line" Squier - I presume on the old Detroit assumption that once you have bought "into the brand" you'll stick with it, even when you upgrade. Buy a Squier affinity when you're 14, get an MIM Fender when you're 24 and a MIA Fender when you're 34 - something like that.
I'll tell you this: in 1976, if Fender started trying to sell off-shored instruments, I don't think it would have gone well. I could be wrong, but I saw how Ibanez basses sold back then (they were very cheap - and a decent value, really - but laughed at back then). So there they were, selling what were thought to be *expensive* instruments - and utterly dominating the market. The same cannot be said today.
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
I agree to some extent. But as you say, the market has changed. But....market share may be lower due to better competition but how many unit sales overall compared to back then. More disposable income leads to more "bedroom players" that do it for personal enjoyment as opposed to being a working musician. IDK, but I'd bet bass guitar sales are much higher now than in the 60's and 70's. Just a thought.
But they ARE eroding, it cannot be denied. In 1976, when I started playing bass, there were three brands of bass that folks took at all seriously: Fender, Gibson and Rickenbacker. Sure, there were Asian brands, but they were not taken at all seriously (for darned good reasons, as it happens. Feel free to flame me.... NOW!
Look - Fender as a brand name is great - but it isn't what it was 40 years ago, and it will continue to slowly erode just because *that's what happens in the free market*. Big companies like Fender can never really keep up with smaller, more agile companies. Fenders stop-gap solution has been to push out a line of inexpensive instruments (MIC/MIK/MIM) and to pair Fender with their "budget line" Squier - I presume on the old Detroit assumption that once you have bought "into the brand" you'll stick with it, even when you upgrade. Buy a Squier affinity when you're 14, get an MIM Fender when you're 24 and a MIA Fender when you're 34 - something like that.
I'll tell you this: in 1976, if Fender started trying to sell off-shored instruments, I don't think it would have gone well. I could be wrong, but I saw how Ibanez basses sold back then (they were very cheap - and a decent value, really - but laughed at back then). So there they were, selling what were thought to be *expensive* instruments - and utterly dominating the market. The same cannot be said today.
Agreed - due to two reasons: Cheaper offshore manufacturing and the whole MTV / Rock Culture thing that blew up in the late 80s. When I was starting out, it was thought to be WAY "outside" to be in a rock band (it was also thought to be highly difficult - today's folks expect everything to be easy, which has led to them giving it a try, which I suppose is good).
Lowendtech
Happily trending in my own peculiar direction.
Ya, then they find out that it takes some actual work and dedication to do it well. Then they go back to watching yootoob.
and their basses sit in a corner. I know SO many guys like this.
What have I done.....Ha. You can't start a thread like this and then decide it's over. It has a life of its own now and you are responsible for it.
You've done IT!
What you could do is try to get a mod to close it, I know just the trick...
I love Fieldy, I think he's a great bass player!
*runs away*
Not much to tell. Was my first 5 string. And the thing had sustain like FOREVER! Which wasn't so good since I was a 5er noob and not into damping yet. It had two single coil jazz type pickups and was passive. It played so-so, thus, in an effort to improve it I had the local luthier do a fret leveling and crowning on it. Improvement was minimal. So getting tired of the tone and single coil hum, I bought a pair of Carvin stacked coii J pickups for it. I didn't like those either. So in a final effort to save that bass I bought a set of Active EMG pickups that everyone was raving about along with the EMG EQ system. That was definitely better and VERY quiet, but much too bright for my taste then. So I finally just gave up on it and traded it in on my G&L Tribby and have been happy ever since. That's it.
I don't own a crystal ball, but I can't see Fender losing popularity any time in the next couple of generations at least.
Practically every bass player I see on a gig, TV or Youtube is playing one and 99.9% of the music I've bought and listened to over the last 50 years was recorded on one. 2 of 4 of my basses are Fenders. Sadly they're the 2 I never play out but that might say more about me than it does the basses.
Even a great company like Lakland only makes about 3500 basses a year, while Fender are estimated to make basses in the high tens of thousands. That's how you measure popularity. Even Fender's bad management at certain points of in the past 50 years hasn't driven the fans away. I'm kind of glad that even after years of Fender trying to shoot themselves in the foot they still appear to be the industry standard.
Leo certainly left them a strong legacy.
Practically every bass player I see on a gig, TV or Youtube is playing one and 99.9% of the music I've bought and listened to over the last 50 years was recorded on one. 2 of 4 of my basses are Fenders. Sadly they're the 2 I never play out but that might say more about me than it does the basses.
Even a great company like Lakland only makes about 3500 basses a year, while Fender are estimated to make basses in the high tens of thousands. That's how you measure popularity. Even Fender's bad management at certain points of in the past 50 years hasn't driven the fans away. I'm kind of glad that even after years of Fender trying to shoot themselves in the foot they still appear to be the industry standard.
Leo certainly left them a strong legacy.
Fender are my favourite brand/type of bass as well. My two main basses are a US made G&L L2500 and a StingRay 4HH, both of which I consider to be every bit as Fender as a Jazz or Precision.
Better product building such as: necks, bodies and electronics. Stop building BS models. Conduct thorugh poll or other type of reaseach to produce models that would better serve the music public.
The younger crowd was't around when Fender was building collectable basses on a regular. Sure the quality has fallen off during the years but, look at what old Fenders (even post CBS built) Fenders are commanding in sale prices. Leo Fender left and went on to produce instruments for Music man and G & L but look at what those vintage instrument command on the used market. Those instruments were supposed to be better because Leo was an innovator but somehow he never reached the pinnacle when he was with Fender. Mic Drop!!!
I prefer the Ibanez Bass Workshop model: find a niche and fill it. Stop worrying about pushing thousands of units through every year, and instead, make something that might only appeal to a few hundred every year.
I had to wait almost 6 months on my Portamento until they did another production run.
I find it nearly impossible to justify paying $1,800 or more for the top-of-the-line production basses from Fender, like the Elite Jazz or Elite Jazz V. Sure, they are nice instruments but jeez.
Around this Canadian town you'll see Fender basses in the hands of probably 8/10 players on live stages on any given weekend. There are definitely music niches where other brands have more traction - e.g. Ibanez is common in metal / harder bands.
Of course if I saw a Lakland or other boutique P or J based bass, I'd probably count that as a Fender from my spot in the audience.
Fender works very hard to maintain their sales numbers. They produce products that fit the market, and the two iconic models are available in entry level to pro quality. Since the introduction of CNC necks (80's) the entry level products have been much more playable.
I recently found a MIM Squier P-Bass from the early '90s that is a very solid and good value ($/music making capacity). That's the kind of thing that has me deciding to simply buy Fender - it's the same price as a Cort / Peavey / Ibanez, very similar playability. No questions about parts availability, and no issues about resale.
15 years ago I would tell people the better value for entry level is not Fender - why pay more for a label on the headstock? But Fender has met their competition in the value market with the non-NA models.
It's pretty common to have sub-cultures that gravitate to one brand / model of instrument or another, too.
Of course if I saw a Lakland or other boutique P or J based bass, I'd probably count that as a Fender from my spot in the audience.
Fender works very hard to maintain their sales numbers. They produce products that fit the market, and the two iconic models are available in entry level to pro quality. Since the introduction of CNC necks (80's) the entry level products have been much more playable.
I recently found a MIM Squier P-Bass from the early '90s that is a very solid and good value ($/music making capacity). That's the kind of thing that has me deciding to simply buy Fender - it's the same price as a Cort / Peavey / Ibanez, very similar playability. No questions about parts availability, and no issues about resale.
15 years ago I would tell people the better value for entry level is not Fender - why pay more for a label on the headstock? But Fender has met their competition in the value market with the non-NA models.
It's pretty common to have sub-cultures that gravitate to one brand / model of instrument or another, too.
Sounds post Matsumoku. The late eighties and nineties saw a lot of Aria Pro II's build in Korea so the quality was arguably lesser. I have a Korean model and am just not thrilled with the tone.
In my mind fender as a brand has fallen off. They do make quality basses and will always be somewhat relevant but lack the innovation that other companies achieve year after year. I'd personally take a dingwall combustion or a stingray over any American made fender at this point.
I'm not a fan of ibanez basses at all. Never played a Cort or Washburn.
