Double Bass Wilson K4

[mav]

I didn't mute the afterlength but the next day after the gig while at home experimenting I did notice the afterlength wanting to take off with a low rumble. Also I tried the bass straight into the amp, which has a tube preamp and it didn't sound drastically worse which was a good surprise.

 

[mav]

I thought I'd post an update, I've been using the K4 for most gigs over the past few months. I had one bass player come up to me after a gig and ask me what pickup I was using because the note definition was so clear.
My experience, I can now play at very loud volume without feedback, slap tone isnt as nice as the Lifeline or Underwood, the tone is not as warm as the lifeline but it is more functional in the mix, band mates can hear me better. I use an FDeck. Took a fair bit of tweeking. Yes it does kind of sound like a giant fretless but I'm ok with this because in the mix it's not noticable. I've noticed more sustain so I have to change my technique to suit the style of music, blues, jazz, country R&B. Here's a pic, im using Evah Synth slaps.

 

[flatback]

I was dreaming I was on a gig the other night and I looked down and I had the K4 installed (I had to take mine off due to bridge work) but in the dream I had it installed along the back arch of the bridge (actually in the arch rather then on the top of the bridge) with the pickups aimed at each string. When I woke up I started thinking about it more. Anybody ever tried that?

 

[Ric Vice]

I have played through a Wilson K4 installed in the front of the bridge. My take is that if you moved it to the back arch
of the bridge the installation may be more difficult because the wood tends to be thicker their so the depth of the element
may not reach through the entire depth. So the short take is things is you’re going to get a different tone quality perhaps darker.
You also might decrease the amount of signal coming from the bridge. Of course won’t know until you try. I’d also be a little concerned about
the bridge being more compromised by the holes being drilled further back. Just things to consider.

 

[Neon Blues]

I just placed an deposit on an Electric Upright with a K4. They were asking almost the price of a K4 for the lot.

Was originally a $3k EUB.

 

[16fuss]

Good luck! I had this combination with massive phasing issues.
May hopefully not be the case with your instrument! I am interested in your report!

 

[Happy Steve]

I just placed an deposit on an Electric Upright with a K4. They were asking almost the price of a K4 for the lot.

The Tim Kill? It looks like a great deal to me. I already have an SLB200 and could not explain an extra EUB to the significant other.
Good luck, I hope you really enjoy it!

 

[Neon Blues]

The Tim Kill? It looks like a great deal to me. I already have an SLB200 and could not explain an extra EUB to the significant other.
Good luck, I hope you really enjoy it!

Small world! Yes, the Tim Kill. I nearly bought one years ago new but couldn't justify the price. I think it was $4000 AUD. If this wasn't a stupid price, I was going to grab a Yamaha SLB.

 

[Kentos]

Would you like to talk about how you like K1 and K4 on your EUB?

I’m considering installing one for those on my MK EUB.

The issues I’m having with stock pickup is, it sounds very boxy. The attack is too strong and makes intonation very unclear. Also the sound become quite when I play a solo.

I have the Wilson K4 on my old EUB.
I originally mounted it as recommended (under each string). But after getting the Yamahiko for my double bass, I got the crazy idea of putting the K4 sensors in the same places as the yama.
So I drilled a hole in each leg of the bridge and put a pair of sensors into each hole (one from front and one from back). It now works more like a 2 sensor device.

The change in sensor position on the EUB resulted in the tone shifting towards woodiness and away from stringiness. not sure if that effect would translate directly to the DB.


View attachment 3673570 View attachment 3673571

 

[DoubleMIDI]

For a solid body EUB where the bridge sits (non-suspended) directly on the body you need a sensor in each bridge leg.
The Wilson mounting directly below the bridge is only useful if you need isolated pickups for each string that may get processed or analyzed individually with separated outputs for each string. The sound is very close to the string and misses the woody damping from the bridge and the resonance from a vibrating top.

On an acoustic DB the K4/5, one sensor under each string just gets a bit of the body/top resonance in the signal but mostly the direct string vibration.

The K1 mounting in the bridge leg works for a well vibrating top with the soundpost at the right position not too close to the bridge. For a solid body EUB you need one sensor in each bridge foot. I his can also be the case for EUBs with a vibrating top if the rib or soundpost is too close to the bridge foot.

 

[Francois Blais]

I tried a K1 on both my EUB (with a suspended bridge and mini resonating chamber) and (cheap ply) DB and got a very similar tone, rather dark with lots of mids.
The pickup hole was in the leg, in front of the wing.

 

[Kentos]

I also considered dual sensors pickup like Vic’s Model-D and underwood. What I concern is if they would have a phase cancellation as both of them catch pretty similar violation from the bridge.

For a solid body EUB where the bridge sits (non-suspended) directly on the body you need a sensor in each bridge leg.
The Wilson mounting directly below the bridge is only useful if you need isolated pickups for each string that may get processed or analyzed individually with separated outputs for each string. The sound is very close to the string and misses the woody damping from the bridge and the resonance from a vibrating top.

On an acoustic DB the K4/5, one sensor under each string just gets a bit of the body/top resonance in the signal but mostly the direct string vibration.

The K1 mounting in the bridge leg works for a well vibrating top with the soundpost at the right position not too close to the bridge. For a solid body EUB you need one sensor in each bridge foot. I his can also be the case for EUBs with a vibrating top if the rib or soundpost is too close to the bridge foot.

 

[Kentos]

How do you like the K1 on your EUB? I’m worried about the lots of mids would cause the same problem I’m having with MK stock pickup. Does the sound cut thru in the mix?

I tried a K1 on both my EUB (with a suspended bridge and mini resonating chamber) and (cheap ply) DB and got a very similar tone, rather dark with lots of mids.
The pickup hole was in the leg, in front of the wing.

 

[Maple]

Would you like to talk about how you like K1 and K4 on your EUB?

I’m considering installing one for those on my MK EUB.

The issues I’m having with stock pickup is, it sounds very boxy. The attack is too strong and makes intonation very unclear. Also the sound become quite when I play a solo.

Hi kento,
I haven’t used my EUB in a band setting in decades. It has always been articulate and clear and worked well in the band I toured with. I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking about but you won’t hear the notes “bloom”. That AFAIK, is an artifact of a true acoustic instrument where it takes a moment for the string energy to get the body to resonate. That’s the magic of an UB that I’ve never heard recreated in an EUB.

 

[flatback]

Hey Maple -how are you man?, thinking about how you have the K4 in the legs of the bridge I asked my Luthier to install mine along the BACK arch of the bridge the four elements spread out across the back arch. I thought this would get away from too much finger noise, while still getting a spread of sound. He refused. He was like, "dont you think Wilson tried all the places when he was designing the pickup?" I was shamed into abandoning that idea and currently dont have the K4 on either bass. BUT it is a great pickup, just before it's time. Plugged into a preamp that has the right Impedance it can be both direct and clear yet somewhat woody. I am still interested and may someday just drill the damn thing myself (I can always plug the holes if it does not work out)

 

[Francois Blais]

How do you like the K1 on your EUB? I’m worried about the lots of mids would cause the same problem I’m having with MK stock pickup. Does the sound cut thru in the mix?

Like I said, lots of mids, but I never used it with a band, and traded it away since then, sorry.

 

[Maple]

Hey Maple -how are you man?, thinking about how you have the K4 in the legs of the bridge I asked my Luthier to install mine along the BACK arch of the bridge the four elements spread out across the back arch. I thought this would get away from too much finger noise, while still getting a spread of sound. He refused. He was like, "dont you think Wilson tried all the places when he was designing the pickup?" I was shamed into abandoning that idea and currently dont have the K4 on either bass. BUT it is a great pickup, just before it's time. Plugged into a preamp that has the right Impedance it can be both direct and clear yet somewhat woody. I am still interested and may someday just drill the damn thing myself (I can always plug the holes if it does not work out)

Hey @flatback - doing well in the East Bay! It's not hard to install the K pickups yourself. Do you have the drill and reamer that comes with the kit? The only real concern to me would be of devaluating a nice bridge and not finding the sound you want. I haven't felt the urge to experiment with the K4 on my UB -- the Yamahiko is doing what I want.

 

[flatback]

Wilson K4 installed correctly IMHO

 

[sas]

a spectacular rethinking of the k4 concept/array! From your current install, can you comment on the aim precision each module maintains towards its allocated string? I'm thinking the increase in distance to the bridge top randomizes that relationship to a certain extent.

 

[flatback]

Each pickup has what seems like a slice (the red slits down the side) of sound that can be aimed like a directional mic. When they are all close to the strings turning the elements to pickup different vibrational patterns kind of has a Vin diagram of overlapping trebley sounds that really emphasize the strings. When you place them at the back of the bridge, the orientation is changed to an up/down rather then side to side (as with the string placement) the result is that the different vibrational and overtone patterns that you can tap into are more varied and more body influenced and way more acoustic/open sounding. Each pickup still seems activated by the string above it, but there is more adjustment of what seems like phase control (from too bassy thru very very nice to a kind of bass cut sound (that sounds like turning the HPF up too high) I have always thought that the Wilson like the Yamahiko was a better pickup then the reputation it had from earlier times when the amps (and imp matching)sucked. I really like the presence of the K4 mounted this way. I am going to at some point (I should have done it first) try just one and then 2 etc. I am sure one will sound pretty good placed at the back of the bridge. The sound is similar to the Yamahiko but different. Super nice.