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Winter Build Off 2023 - Supersymmetry
- Thread starter TFM94
- Start date
Well, you can't do the kneading and the bending, but you can definitely make something similar. A cylinder (or a bar) that you can cut slices from, that you can then put into your headstocks as logos.
I don't have the experience, but with a block of wood, a saw, laminate, glue and a lathe, I think you'll go a long way.
Seeing what the OP can do with a neck, it should be child's play to come up with a solution.
I'm equally interested.
All this has actually re-sparked my interest in a logo for my instruments.
Thank you all for the logo suggestions. I'm intrigued by the clay method, but I'll first see how the epoxy filled ebony turns out. The only problem I can see with the clay method is that I don't have a lathe. But who's to say that the logo has to be round?
I can see myself experimenting with logos a bit more in the future. I'll make sure to post updates then.
I can see myself experimenting with logos a bit more in the future. I'll make sure to post updates then.
Welcome to the space age! This time we leave the woodpile alone and make some carbon fiber parts.
I bought a 1.5mm CF sheet for the pickguard, control cavity cover and trussrod access cover. I used a coping saw to cut out the rough shape. The trussrod and control covers were then shaped and fitted with files and sandpaper, while the pickguard was routed with two different templates (one for the outer perimeter and one for the pickup hole). Luckily it wasn't too cold and I was able to do the routing outside to keep the dust out. The curved parts of the pickguard have a 60 deg chamfer just like the body, but the straight sides near the pickup are square like a pickup ring.
Here are the three pieces. I drilled the holes for mounting screws, and of course when drilling the last hole in the pickguard, my drillbit snapped and left a scratch in the pickguard just above the pickup. So frustrating
! I might make a new pickguard at a later point, but for now I'll continue with this one. Luckily its matt CF, so it is not quite is obvious as with a gloss pickguard.
And now, for fun, here's a first mockup of the body with the pickguard, pickup and bridge laid out.
Now there is no more excuse to delay sanding. None.
I bought a 1.5mm CF sheet for the pickguard, control cavity cover and trussrod access cover. I used a coping saw to cut out the rough shape. The trussrod and control covers were then shaped and fitted with files and sandpaper, while the pickguard was routed with two different templates (one for the outer perimeter and one for the pickup hole). Luckily it wasn't too cold and I was able to do the routing outside to keep the dust out. The curved parts of the pickguard have a 60 deg chamfer just like the body, but the straight sides near the pickup are square like a pickup ring.
Here are the three pieces. I drilled the holes for mounting screws, and of course when drilling the last hole in the pickguard, my drillbit snapped and left a scratch in the pickguard just above the pickup. So frustrating
! I might make a new pickguard at a later point, but for now I'll continue with this one. Luckily its matt CF, so it is not quite is obvious as with a gloss pickguard.And now, for fun, here's a first mockup of the body with the pickguard, pickup and bridge laid out.
Now there is no more excuse to delay sanding. None.
the scratchguard began its life early, and has proven its usefulness.left a scratch in the pickguard just above the pickup. So frustrating
No reason at all that it needs to be round. The clay method is essentially the same principle as how the rosette around an acoustic guitar sound hole is traditionally made.
The blackening has begun.
I sanded and applied sealer on all facets of the sides. I sanded back with 400 grit and applied two more thin coats of sealer to make sure that no stain can get on there. After sanding the top to 400 grit, setting the surface and sanding it again, I applied some water based black stain. Same procedure at the headstock.
The first coat, getting a nice saturation:
Then I sanded it back with the random orbital sander:
Applied a second coat and sanded back by hand, much less than I sanded the first coat:
That's where I'm at right now. I have to make the judgement call whether I want to leave it as it is and apply sealer over it or if I should apply more stain to have a deeper color. The dark black looks good, but it shows less of the figure and it has less of a contrast against the pickguard. Of course the appearance will change quite a bit with the first layer of tru oil...thoughts?
I sanded and applied sealer on all facets of the sides. I sanded back with 400 grit and applied two more thin coats of sealer to make sure that no stain can get on there. After sanding the top to 400 grit, setting the surface and sanding it again, I applied some water based black stain. Same procedure at the headstock.
The first coat, getting a nice saturation:
Then I sanded it back with the random orbital sander:
Applied a second coat and sanded back by hand, much less than I sanded the first coat:
That's where I'm at right now. I have to make the judgement call whether I want to leave it as it is and apply sealer over it or if I should apply more stain to have a deeper color. The dark black looks good, but it shows less of the figure and it has less of a contrast against the pickguard. Of course the appearance will change quite a bit with the first layer of tru oil...thoughts?
PANIC! FRUSTRATION! UTTER DESPAIR!
I put on another coat of stain, thinned 1:1 with water and evened it out with a clean damp rag. It looks pretty good, not flat black, but not too "distressed" either. I put on a few coats of sealer and declared the staining process complete.
Then I glued the neck in. Well, at least I tried. Here's where things went south.
I thought that the tenon fit loosely enough into the pocket so that I could still slide it in while using titebond (a technique I've used many times before), but I was wrong. Dead wrong. The wood swelled up so much that I could only get about 1/3 into the pocket until it seized up. I figured that I'm unable to push it all the way in, so I tried to get the neck back out. It wouldn't move a bit. After fighting it for five minutes of wiggling it up and down, left and right and pulling like there's no tomorrow, I finally got it back out. Phew. I'm exhausted.
That's not what you want to see with 2 weeks left in the buildoff. Now I have to pick up the pieces and start over. I wiped and scraped most of the glue off while it was still soft. The rest will be sanded off later. The tenon is almost back to where it was before, but cleaning up the inside of the pocket is a bit more tedious. While trying to pull the neck out, the center seam of the top separated a bit. Luckily there is no visible gap.
I think my best bet would be to use epoxy. I was hoping to avoid it because it tends to visibly soak into the wood surrounding the joint, but I guess there's no other way. On the plus side, The epoxy could automatically reinforce the center seam.
I put on another coat of stain, thinned 1:1 with water and evened it out with a clean damp rag. It looks pretty good, not flat black, but not too "distressed" either. I put on a few coats of sealer and declared the staining process complete.
Then I glued the neck in. Well, at least I tried. Here's where things went south.
I thought that the tenon fit loosely enough into the pocket so that I could still slide it in while using titebond (a technique I've used many times before), but I was wrong. Dead wrong. The wood swelled up so much that I could only get about 1/3 into the pocket until it seized up. I figured that I'm unable to push it all the way in, so I tried to get the neck back out. It wouldn't move a bit. After fighting it for five minutes of wiggling it up and down, left and right and pulling like there's no tomorrow, I finally got it back out. Phew. I'm exhausted.
That's not what you want to see with 2 weeks left in the buildoff. Now I have to pick up the pieces and start over. I wiped and scraped most of the glue off while it was still soft. The rest will be sanded off later. The tenon is almost back to where it was before, but cleaning up the inside of the pocket is a bit more tedious. While trying to pull the neck out, the center seam of the top separated a bit. Luckily there is no visible gap.
I think my best bet would be to use epoxy. I was hoping to avoid it because it tends to visibly soak into the wood surrounding the joint, but I guess there's no other way. On the plus side, The epoxy could automatically reinforce the center seam.
I feel your pain! Glue ups can be very stressful. Might be worth taking a little more off the tenon.
Thanks. I'm not taking any risks with the second attempt, I'll make sure it the tenon has enough room to slide in easily, the epoxy will fill the gaps anyways.
Ugh, sorry that happened! I'm glad you were able to get it out eventually. I had a similar glue up issue like this before and I always question why everybody goes for the neck pocket so tight you can lift it/put weight on it, etc without glue. Maybe they use a different type of glue? I don't know.
Oof! Yes, I think you need to loosen the fit, just a little bit, and try again with epoxy. The big advantage of the epoxy is that it will fill gaps, and in the gaps it will cure to full hardness. Titebond and most wood glues stay partially soft and weak in gaps.
If you are really afraid of the wood darkening around the epoxy, you could use LMII's Yellow Instrument Glue. It's a wood glue that does fully harden in gaps, and it's naturally a pale whitish-yellow when dry.
So sorry this happened to you. 
Many of us have been there too and feel your pain. Post liked out of sympathy, not because I liked your pain. 
Many of us have been there too and feel your pain. Post liked out of sympathy, not because I liked your pain. Hey, at least you recovered it in time. FWIW the body looks awesome 
If all you lost is a couple pennies worth of glue and the time it takes to clean it up, you're not doing too bad
If all you lost is a couple pennies worth of glue and the time it takes to clean it up, you're not doing too bad
Thanks for the support everbody!
First off, I cleaned the tenon and pocket, made the fit a bit looser, mixed up some epoxy and glued the neck in. This time it was easy as pie. The tenon went in without much effort. There is one clamp holding it down, and a crosswise clamp to close any gaps at the end of the pocket. Neither of them is tightened all the way, just a little bit to hold everything in place.
First off, I cleaned the tenon and pocket, made the fit a bit looser, mixed up some epoxy and glued the neck in. This time it was easy as pie. The tenon went in without much effort. There is one clamp holding it down, and a crosswise clamp to close any gaps at the end of the pocket. Neither of them is tightened all the way, just a little bit to hold everything in place.
The funny thing is that the fit wasn't all that tight to begin with. I had a bit of wiggle room. If I held it by the neck, the body would fall down. My suspicion is that the birch body expands with moisture more than other woods. I noticed earlier that the top glue-up induced a significant amount of cupping, which disappeared after a day or two. That should have beend a clue not to use titebond for the neck joint. All my previous neck joints of this kind were mahogany and never had this issue. Lesson learned.
Good, you're set now!
Another technique I've seen for fitting set necks, for future reference: Using two slim wedges on the sides of the neck pocket. You cut the neck pocket with parallel sides, and put a taper on the side walls of the neck heel, narrower at the back. Then you make up a pair of maple wedges which fit into the sides of the pocket, points outward. This makes a tapered fit between the heel and the wedges. With a tapered fit, you put it in and it locks up tight in the right position. No sliding it down a tight parallel fit.
This also makes it easier to finely fit the joint. The heel and pocket are cut earlier. Then you carefully trim the thickness of a pair of wedges to make it dry-fit together, accurately aligned. It's much easier to block sand the wedges than to trim the heel or pocket. And you can adjust the wedges as needed to correct the alignment. When it's all just right, apply the glue and stick it together.
Another technique I've seen for fitting set necks, for future reference: Using two slim wedges on the sides of the neck pocket. You cut the neck pocket with parallel sides, and put a taper on the side walls of the neck heel, narrower at the back. Then you make up a pair of maple wedges which fit into the sides of the pocket, points outward. This makes a tapered fit between the heel and the wedges. With a tapered fit, you put it in and it locks up tight in the right position. No sliding it down a tight parallel fit.
This also makes it easier to finely fit the joint. The heel and pocket are cut earlier. Then you carefully trim the thickness of a pair of wedges to make it dry-fit together, accurately aligned. It's much easier to block sand the wedges than to trim the heel or pocket. And you can adjust the wedges as needed to correct the alignment. When it's all just right, apply the glue and stick it together.
That wedge idea is excellent. I’ll try not to forget it before I need it.
